#1
Post rating: +
So remember when a couple of foreigners in the Kurdish region Saddam didn't even control was used as an excuse to invade Iraq and cause death and destruction to millions who never deserved it?

Well, according to a released Wikileaks document revealed in this throwaway half sentence in the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/29cables.html?pagewanted=2

Saudi donors remain the chief financiers of Sunni militant groups like Al Qaeda,



Now we all know that the Saudi government isn't intentionally financing and producing Al Qaeda; its a byproduct of their corrupt and illegitimate rule. The Saudi government indoctrinate their people from birth to believe in Islam, give them no other world view, they have no access to moderate, liberal or secular ideas and they can't form political parties or change their government democratically.

You know Al Qaeda is made up of the truly oppressed because they don't form their arguments in that way. Instead, Osama bin Laden would quote William Blum or Noam Chomsky in some weird attempt to characterize what he was doing through failed leftist ideas. If only the worthless left could just repeat the above fucking paragraph things would begin to make some more sense maybe we could get somewhere but things are as they are.

Now Saudi Arabia is ultimately responsible for producing most of the world's terrorists through their authoritarian theocratic dictatorship.

So how are they punished?

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/12/why-are-we-selling-saudi-arabia-60-billion-arms/46799/

"The package also includes upgrades to 70 other jets, Joint Direct Attack Munitions and the sale of 72 Black Hawk helicopters, 70 Apaches and 36 Little Birds, reports The Wall Street Journal. Congress signed off on the $60 billion deal, the largest overseas arms deal in history, last year but only now has the Obama administration forged a deal."



LOL

Now we all know the reasons for why this isn't ever confronted even though the worthless left (have I mentioned how unbelievably worthless the left is because they are. Worthless I mean) haven't really made a point of this but it's because Saudi Arabia is the center of Islam and has the two holiest cities in all of the Muslim faith: Mecca and Medina. 1.5 billion people in the world are Muslim, 90% are Sunni. In the year 1900 there were 1.5 billion people on the entire planet. By the year 2025 there's projected to be 2.1 billion Muslims and confronting the stewards of Islam would send psychological shockwaves throughout the entire Muslim world.

Also, the United States needs its cheap oil which enables its middle and upper class lifestyle as does its rich asshole allies. Look at unemployment, the price of gas and the economy and tell me the United States wouldn't take ten 9/11s and ten times the amount of soldier dead recently incurred like it was nothing as long as that cheap bubbling crude kept things trucking along for one more pathetic generation.

But what's the wider problem? It's one the left refuses to confront: the people.

Read the following:

http://www.salon.com/2011/09/07/sept_11_unanswered_questions/

What’s in the famously redacted 28 pages?

A joint inquiry of the House and Senate intelligence committees produced an 800-plus page report on activity of the intelligence community in connection with the 9/11 attacks, completed in December 2002. But 28 pages were redacted in the public version, all in the section titled “Finding, Discussion and Narrative Regarding Certain Sensitive National Security Matters.” It has been widely reported that those pages — which neither the Bush nor Obama administration have declassified — deal with links between 9/11 hijackers and Saudi government officials. Newsweek, for example, reported that the section “draws apparent connections between high-level Saudi princes and associates of the hijackers.”



Why did the government redact these pages? Simple. To give the people plausible deniability. Keep in mind there are thousands of members of the Saudi royal family and I don't think the top Saudi officials wanted anything to do with Al Qaeda but after 9/11 there would have been a feeling of obligation to confront Saudi Arabia for having a connection to the 9/11 attacks similar to when Zarqawi and a couple dozen of his friends were used as an excuse to invade Iraq.

The American public would have been forced to ration oil supplies and lower their standard of living and the people, being the selfish cowards they are, would rather other people who have gone though decades of immense suffering suffer a decade more so they themselves don't have to sacrifice.

But hey, by murdering all of those Afghans and Iraqis at least the people got to look and feel like they were doing something about that Saudi problem they don't have the courage to directly confront. Sort of like how those millions of people died in Southeast Asia so the United States could look and feel like it was doing something about that Soviet problem it didn't have the courage to directly confront.

The more things change, right guys?

#2
tardy on these heaters
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Muslims hate the Saudis you idiot
#3
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people in saudi arabia have literally never heard of liberalism
#4
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lets play a game where we pretend all that stuff in the OP somehow characterizes america and not, like, everywhere with a middle class
#5
Nippon
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babyfinland posted:
Muslims hate the Saudis you idiot



lol.

#6
[account deactivated]
#7
penitent
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ur writing style is weird + bad
#8
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im a steward of islam
#9
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deadken posted:
ur writing style is weird + bad



It's matter of fact and just about politics.

It's not whining about personal shit and doesn't involve making short, quippy and worthless statements so I can see how it could uninterest you.

#10
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cleanhands posted:
lets play a game where we pretend all that stuff in the OP somehow characterizes america and not, like, everywhere with a middle class



That's why I wrote that part about "rich asshole allies". That meant Japan, Canada, Australia, the Europeans countries, etc.

So I guess the game you're playing is "not knowing how to read" or "making stupid assumptions".

#11
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babyfinland posted:
Muslims hate the Saudis you idiot



But apparently they like being bribed like non-Muslims.

http://persiangulffund.com/saudi-arabia-distributes-130-billion/

Saudi Arabia distributes $130 billion

In the aftermath of the mass unrest in the poor countries of northern Africa and the Middle East, King Abdullah of the rich oil country Saudi Arabia quickly decided to distribute over $130 billion, which equals the amount the country earns from oil export in eight months, through various grants and programmes.

The first financial package was announced on February 24th – the amount back then was $36 billion and the goal was to prevent the unrest in foreign countries from spreading into Saudi Arabia. The objective of the programme was to spend money on improving the country’s education and health system, and building infrastructure. Public sector workers received a 15% pay raise and the amounts of unemployment benefits and the education allowance paid to students were increased.

The second financial package was announced less than a month later, on March 20th, and its total amount is $94 billion. The package was given the highly appropriate name “21 Royal Commandments”. This is a truly massive package, as it comprises 21% of the state’s GDP in 2010 or 56% of the country’s actual budget expenditure in 2010.



I guess I gotta hand it to the revelatory genius of cleanhands for helping me see that everyone that is middle or upper class can be selfish and cowardly like the United States.

This is why I come here guys, to learn from the best.

#12
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#13
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jools posted:
people in saudi arabia have literally never heard of liberalism



They can't espouse liberal ideals without being imprisoned, tortured or killed.

I suppose I should have said "outlet" instead of "access" but I made the presumption that you knew that it's not necessarily knowing about an idea but being able to do anything with it. I can bash the military until I'm blue in the face but I'm never going to have an affect on policy in this country because it's extremely militarist. It doesn't look like anti-militarism exists because absolutely noone in the mainstream can go against the military without millions wanting to cut that person's throat out and bathe in their blood, but that doesn't mean nobody has ever heard of it.

But don't worry, I'll never assume you know what's implied again. I forgot I was talking to a bunch of children.

Seriously guys, if you just want to be hostile and argue this way I can do that too.

#14
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internationalist posted:
Now Saudi Arabia is ultimately responsible for producing most of the world's terrorists through their authoritarian theocratic dictatorship.



lmao.

#15
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sure Euro-American imperialism has been running around terrorizing the entire fuckin world for centuries but you see, its the Mohammedan Dictatorship that is the problem!!!
#16
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Its completely untrue to suggest that Saudi Arabia produces the majority of Islamist (not to mention theocratic) terrorists, when America, Israel, Russia, and a host of many players are just as involved. Saudi Arabia is definitely a factor, but its not because of it presiding over territory which has historical religious significance. Israel and the Palestinian Authority do not have control over Christian theocratic terrorists, despite Jerusalem, and even despite the "Israeli lobby". Its a huge mistake to locate Saudi Arabia as the originator of terrorism, its just another player.
#17
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yeah, especially when the true originator of terrorism is.... me *ominous music*
#18
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Ok, I guess I have to post what I'm doing here since some of you seem to have a weird cliquish snarky reaction to everything I post.

I read LF at somethingawful and noticed two posters: tpaine and goatstein.

A few years ago those two posters seemed to me the only people politically I agreed with strongly, especially when it came to criticism of militarism in the United States. I never signed up for the forums because paying to write something on a forum is beyond stupid to me, but it seemed some of those on there, not just tpaine and Goatstein, were trying to get through to some people and genuinely argue decently and humanely in that cesspit. They were eventually punished but I admired that they would try to say something unpopular in an environment where the posting Gestapo could ban you at a whim because Lowtax needed to be a internet millionaire.

What I've also noticed is two other posters: babyfinland and discipline.

I know babyfinland used to post on SA but I didn't really notice him. Despite his douchy first reply in this thread I now find him to be somebody who I believe is interested in international issues and I have a certain amount of respect for him.

Discipline seems to be the anti-SA mod. I think it's awesome that you're trying to create a place where more radically minded people can express their beliefs and analyze political issues even though this place does keep devolving. In the words of George Galloway:

"I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability, and I want you to know that we are with you, hatta al-nasr, hatta al-nasr, hatta al-Quds”

So I post here because I agree with some of your sentiments though I may disagree on almost everything politically since the left has an annoying populist streak it can't ever get rid of no matter what form it takes.

But finally, there's one poster I would just like to address: deadken.

He decided to be one of the first replies I ever got when I posted that anti-military post when I first came here. It was basically another “yur dumb” reply like the one in this thread.

Deadken, I know the reason you don't like reading what I write is because I don't sound like those people in those philosophy books you waste your time reading. Since you obviously don't like me and you can't point out one part of what I've said or believe in and tell me why it's wrong, could you kindly go back to hitting those books and get the fuck out of this or any other thread I write, asshole?

Anytime I read what you write in reply to me all I picture is this guy in a baby costume:



I know you think you're being ironically stupid but it comes across to me as being purly genuine. I really do think you're an idiot with nothing to contribute. I don't know if you're mentally high-fiving the other people here when you write a retarded reply to me but I think they know you're stupid too; they're just too polite to tell you because of some form of social internet decorum.

I don't want you to leave this place because I know it has a social value to you. You don't see this place as an outlet for political discussion like me and I have no problem with that.

Just kindly fuck off whenever you see me post a thread, ok? Thanks in advance.
#19
[account deactivated]
#20
tardy on these heaters
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My "douchey first reply" was entirely appropriate to the orientalist idiotic nonsense you blew out of your ass in the OP.
#21
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welcome, comrade
#22
Post rating: +
No need to pile on, folks. But I think the orientalist charge there is fair, why do you consider funding so much more important than the actual circumstances that drive terrorism: war and economic blockade, racism and ideological bombardment. I think religion is more a mode and not an impetus. Conservatism is primarily reactive
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[account deactivated]
#25
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babyfinland posted:
Muslims hate the Saudis you idiot


i love Saudis, and Im Atheist.

#26
[account deactivated]
#27
[account deactivated]
#28
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

Lessons posted:

babyfinland posted:
Muslims hate the Saudis you idiot

i love Saudis, and Im Atheist.



the saudi govt, everybody loves the teddy bears of the middle east

#29
Post rating: ~

internationalist posted:

babyfinland posted:
Muslims hate the Saudis you idiot

But apparently they like being bribed like non-Muslims.

http://persiangulffund.com/saudi-arabia-distributes-130-billion/

Saudi Arabia distributes $130 billion

In the aftermath of the mass unrest in the poor countries of northern Africa and the Middle East, King Abdullah of the rich oil country Saudi Arabia quickly decided to distribute over $130 billion, which equals the amount the country earns from oil export in eight months, through various grants and programmes.

The first financial package was announced on February 24th – the amount back then was $36 billion and the goal was to prevent the unrest in foreign countries from spreading into Saudi Arabia. The objective of the programme was to spend money on improving the country’s education and health system, and building infrastructure. Public sector workers received a 15% pay raise and the amounts of unemployment benefits and the education allowance paid to students were increased.

The second financial package was announced less than a month later, on March 20th, and its total amount is $94 billion. The package was given the highly appropriate name “21 Royal Commandments”. This is a truly massive package, as it comprises 21% of the state’s GDP in 2010 or 56% of the country’s actual budget expenditure in 2010.



I guess I gotta hand it to the revelatory genius of cleanhands for helping me see that everyone that is middle or upper class can be selfish and cowardly like the United States.

This is why I come here guys, to learn from the best.



no problem, glad i could help

#30
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
It's not really true that the Saudis bribe their citizenry successfully either btw. They are severely repressed by the dictatorship but there were pretty huge protests going and there are insurgent groups in various areas.
#31
Post rating: ~
if youre mad about it then edit the thread title and start acting like an internationalist, internationalist
#32
Post rating: +
internationalist--once again, blaming the poverty of the world (that's been there since the dawn of time) on capitalism! Not quite sure how that is supposed to work in your socialist dreaming mind (which is not about producing but is all about taking from those who DO produce; but where oh where would you be WITHOUT the producers?). Because the west became rich and the backward world did not is somehow due to something evil WE have done to them (like providing a market for their natural resources, I suppose). Oh, that's right, it's because we are selfish and won't share our largess. Sorry, that isn't going to wash, either logically or historically. The early American colonialists of the 1600s were about as poor as anyone in the third world today, yet through freedom, brains, ambition, and technological advances (which come from freedom, brains, and ambition), there's a world of difference today. With places like Africa, we can't even GIVE them money and have them make it work. Instead, they continue to put evil Marxist dictators in power and immerse themselves in inter-tribal warfare (cutting the arms and legs off of the women and children of the enemy, that kind of thing--that shows you the level where they are). But that's somehow all OUR fault!
#33
tardy on these heaters
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Aerdil, I don't even know where to begin with that post. You should probably turn around and get your pretty butt back to WDDP, sweetheart.
#34
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seems more like tne's bag to me
#35
[account deactivated]
#36
meet me in st louis
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babyfinland posted:
Muslims hate the Saudis you idiot



if only. anecdotal and all, but i swear every year the number of pro-saudi/wahabbi apologists increases.

but i mean look at dis gaudy erection:

#37
el area metro
Post rating: ~
OP knows nothing about the middle east
#38
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

guidoanselmi posted:

babyfinland posted:
Muslims hate the Saudis you idiot

if only. anecdotal and all, but i swear every year the number of pro-saudi/wahabbi apologists increases.

but i mean look at dis gaudy erection:



I donno, even the majority of salafis I've been in contact with / read don't like the Saudi state

#39
el area metro
Post rating: ~

Now we all know that the Saudi government isn't intentionally financing and producing Al Qaeda



lol

#40
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: ~

DRUXXX posted:
OP knows nothing about the middle east

Unconstructive hyperbole. User is toast for this post.