#1
[account deactivated]
#2
Nippon
Post rating: ~
the blonde woman in that comic has her tits and vag covered, as well as her eyes. just an editorial correction there

Goethestein was probated until (Jan. 5, 2012 02:39:37) for this post!

#3
Post rating: ~
This is a really great analysis of cultural pressures. Anthropologists have yet to find any living cultures where the inferiority of women isn't automatically assumed by the majority of cultural practices (especially in areas of distributing wealth).

I have to retort that while liberalism complicates and creates illusions around issues of female self-worth, it is not the source of such inequality. I link this famous essay everywhere I get the chance, but fail to see many people take it seriously.


Is Female to Male as Nature Is to Culture?

http://www.radicalanthropologygroup.org/old/class_text_049.pdf

Symbolic analysis isn't taken very kindly here - because you are a bunch of classical and materialistic heathens - whether you know it or not. If you don't want to read Ortner's essay - I will outline her main points.

For all human existence, women have been tasked without consent with the responsibility to become pregnant and continue the species.

For all human existence, men have been tasked with the responsibility of defending women and children without the ability to continue the species.

For this reason, in all cultures, Women are seen as (by default) closer to the human conception of "nature" - that is, the world as it exists without the mind/action of human beings. The sexual dimorphism of human beings is readily apparent. Women have physical attributes that automatically signify their more intimate relationship to nature.

Take the previous into account with the idea that for everywhere on the planet - nature is the most fearsome bane of human beings. Nature accounts for nearly every human death - mostly from disease and the wearing of time.

To a man - the woman represents his largest desires and largest fears simultaneously. The desire is for immortality and the continuation of his progress and sacrifice through children and their upbringing. The fear is of total death and the loss of his eventual ego - which will be replaced by the children that only women can create.

This symbolic contradiction - man perceives in women - and makes him naturally suspicious of them. His "drives" make it so that a woman is simultaneously the only way for him to experience pleasure and to continue the species - he feels as though his ego is in jeopardy.

These fears, combined with the natural advantage of men biologically (they do not experience discomfort for weeks at a time and do not need to nurture a vulnerable body for years during childbearing) - give men ample opportunity to develop cultural systems that control or mask over the natural advantages of women.

These include of course - controlling systems of "choice or option", as clearly stated in the OP. But these controls are not a symptom of capitalism or market alone - men have been maintaining them for thousands of years.


#4
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
"If women want to pursue a career, the lack of mandatory paid maternity leave and high cost of childcare means that the "choice" to have an abortion is now an option."

Canada has paid maternity leave and subsidies for child care, like most other Western countries. More America-centric thinking, sigh....
#5
[account deactivated]
#6
drivel of drunken hags
Post rating: ~
is that not probably largely a result of the erosion of abortion rights constantly being used as an election issue in the US though
#7
[account deactivated]
#8
Post rating: ~
How do statements like

NounsareVerbs posted:
To a man - the woman represents his largest desires and largest fears simultaneously. The desire is for immortality and the continuation of his progress and sacrifice through children and their upbringing. The fear is of total death and the loss of his eventual ego - which will be replaced by the children that only women can create.


mesh with males who submit to voluntary sterilization?

It just seems to me like any statement that starts with "to a man" or "to a woman" or really any absolute regarding people is just starting off on completely the wrong foot.

I have just always been under the impression that people, are like... complicated man.

#9
[account deactivated]
#10
Post rating: ~
idk isnt the Singularity supposed to solve all these problems anyway???
#11
drivel of drunken hags
Post rating: ~
fun fact: in the 80s goldman sachs used to ask women if they would have an abortion to help their career in hiring interviews
#12
Post rating: ~

reignofevil posted:
It just seems to me like any statement that starts with "to a man" or "to a woman" or really any absolute regarding people is just starting off on completely the wrong foot.



symbolic interpretation deals with majority cultural interpretations - individual choices should most often be explained in terms of these interpretations. but not all individual choices will be because some people transcend symbolic norms. if the fear of nature and desire to procreate aren't universal norms, then ortner's argument would be in error. i feel pretty confident those are modes that both men and women are stuck with - just as women are stuck with maternal responsibilities.

of course not every man needs to procreate and build walls, and not every women need be a mother, but on the whole these are minimally required for the majority of the population for species to survive.

#13
el area metro
Post rating: ~
look at it this way, lady, would YOU hire someone who was gonna be out on maternity leave 3-5 months out of the year?
#14
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:
It's also pretty clear that most western women aren't fed the whole "abortion is the most important thing to worry about as a feminist" outside of the USA too.



b-b-b-but bell hooks

#15
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
I forget who said it but they articulated the point really well when they claimed that "choice" in capitalist society functions as consent
#16
el area metro
Post rating: ~
no one has a choice about anything and if you don't see that then you should choose to kill yourself
#17
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

DRUXXX posted:
no one has a choice about anything and if you don't see that then you should choose to kill yourself



*tries, can't*

#18
Post rating: ~

Groulxsmith posted:
fun fact: in the 80s goldman sachs used to ask women if they would have an abortion to help their career in hiring interviews



anyone unwilling to murder a helpless lifeform has no place in finance anyway

#19
Post rating: ~

DRUXXX posted:
no one has a choice about anything and if you don't see that then you should choose to kill yourself



i wish i could, but God compels me to live and spread his gospel.

#20
Post rating: ~

AmericanNazbro posted:

DRUXXX posted:
no one has a choice about anything and if you don't see that then you should choose to kill yourself

i wish i could, but God compels me to live and spread his gospel.


"Do as thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law" - the gospel according to sain t (ron) paul

#21
[account deactivated]
#22
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
when i saw phantom menace i was like this rules it's got everything you could want, pod racing, ewan macgregor, mitochlorians, everything, and i was like 18.
#23
Post rating: +
you can do as you will, but not will as you will *reclines in armchair w/ bubble pipe*
#24
Post rating: ~
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/human-barbie-gives-7-old-daughter-liposuction-voucher-160952113--abc-news.html
#25
Nippon
Post rating: ~
#26
[account deactivated]