roseweird posted:

okay. i'm sorry about the frustrating and apparently repetitive conversations you keep having with australians. but i have no familiarity at all with such discussions and it's really baffling to be held responsible for them. also if you are capable of recognizing the paralysis of climate change in the culture war, surely you realize people turned to apocalypticism out of a desperate desire to avert and slow fossil fuel related pollution? can't you recognize the nature of this standoff? why are you so caught up in the most superficial aspects of it ... for 15 years apparently ?

well speaking of superficial arguments, while people were spruiking solar panels and recycling America has gone and found itself on the way to energy self-sufficiency thanks to fracking.

TG posted:

hey guyz if we stop paying attention to iwc when he pulls out his boring tired old gimmick then maybe just maybe hell stop doing it and we could go back to thinking of him as a cliche aussie instead of a weak ass troll (and yes i mean weak ass-troll)

i only started actually posting here in late 2013 but he's been doing this since LF started basically so i dont see why you would think this would work

c_man posted:

TG posted:

hey guyz if we stop paying attention to iwc when he pulls out his boring tired old gimmick then maybe just maybe hell stop doing it and we could go back to thinking of him as a cliche aussie instead of a weak ass troll (and yes i mean weak ass-troll)

i only started actually posting here in late 2013 but he's been doing this since LF started basically so i dont see why you would think this would work

it hasnt been tried, someone always rises to the bait

TG posted:

c_man posted:

TG posted:

hey guyz if we stop paying attention to iwc when he pulls out his boring tired old gimmick then maybe just maybe hell stop doing it and we could go back to thinking of him as a cliche aussie instead of a weak ass troll (and yes i mean weak ass-troll)

i only started actually posting here in late 2013 but he's been doing this since LF started basically so i dont see why you would think this would work



it hasnt been tried, someone always rises to the bait

i'm not trolling now (climatology is deeply flawed) but i started the 'science is evil' schtick in a giant LF thread about the F-22 to troll Powercrazy or one of those D&D nerds and it's definitelhe y the easiest way to bait an internet crowd. It makes a lot more sense to me now i realize that technology worship is the West's new religious order: built on the bones of a dying Protestantism but infused with the absolutism and intolerance of militant Islam.

Scientists are naturally the high priests of this movement, the guardians of divine knowledge and ultimately the arbiters of morality. Climate Change itself is a very clever adaptation or Christian doctrine, combining the original sin with the threat of judgement day and yet the promise of salvation, all within one easy-to-follow story arc.

It's an awe-inspiring miasma of modernity and so I don't blame the little Spaniards like c_man, running around holding the heretics feet to the fire, questioning their motives, looking into their souls. I understand, it's reassuring enough to be on the side of power but it must feel transcendent to be doing the work of God

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

i'm not trolling now (climatology is deeply flawed) but i started the 'science is evil' schtick in a giant LF thread about the F-22 to troll Powercrazy or one of those D&D nerds and it's definitelhe y the easiest way to bait an internet crowd. It makes a lot more sense to me now i realize that technology worship is the West's new religious order: built on the bones of a dying Protestantism but infused with the absolutism and intolerance of militant Islam.

Scientists are naturally the high priests of this movement, the guardians of divine knowledge and ultimately the arbiters of morality. Climate Change itself is a very clever adaptation or Christian doctrine, combining the original sin with the threat of judgement day and yet the promise of salvation, all within one easy-to-follow story arc.

It's an awe-inspiring miasma of modernity and so I don't blame the little Spaniards like c_man, running around holding the heretics feet to the fire, questioning their motives, looking into their souls. I understand, it's reassuring enough to be on the side of power but it must feel transcendent to be doing the work of God

"science is the new morality/religion" has been the rallying cry of people who dont want to brush aside unpleasant but verifiable facts since leeches were acceptable medicine. declaring science to be ideology didnt work for lysenko and it wont work for the climate. climate science isnt perfect and has never been perfect but it is as good as it could be and gives the best results that we have (thats how its defined, you see, whatever works best becomes the accepted standard), so its as flawed as the scientific method, which puts it pretty far up in terms of how empirically accurate something can be.

Superabound posted:

c_man posted:

probably, it wouldnt surprise me if he was an anti-vaccine person too

vaccines are incredibly harmful to the long term evolutionary survival of the species

not taking this post seriously or anything but since the idea has come up a few times already id liike to take this opportunity to say that human evolution as driven by natural selection has been kaput for 5000+ years

chickeon posted:

not taking this post seriously or anything but since the idea has come up a few times already id liike to take this opportunity to say that human evolution as driven by natural selection has been kaput for 5000+ years

except in the realm of immunological adaptation, which we are now killing. Eventually aliens will invade earth and wipe out the entire human population with a single peanut

roseweird posted:

nuclear reactors pose risks if safety measures fail

oh well as long as that never happens i guess we'll all be fine

roseweird posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

America has gone and found itself on the way to energy self-sufficiency thanks to fracking.



for a little while, and at great cost to public health in wide swaths of rural communities, and maybe damaged the entire continent's water supply for centuries. we should be building solar panels and nuclear reactors instead.

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

Sincere question here: are there any other branches of science that rely as much on theory rather than evidence, and future-prediction, as much as climatology?



uh, yeah, how about medicine for a start

that's because there's always been plenty of dead and alive bodies for doctors to take a look at and examine, most of them being conveniently about the same size and complexity as the doctor. Predictive reasoning is pretty straight forward (eat lots and you will get fat, smoke lots and you will get cancer) and the number of variables (diet, exercise, routine) is low.

The earth's climate has about a bajillion variables, most of which we still aren't even aware of. Volcanoes? Solar flares? aerosols? algae, economic crises? Fair enough that someone's having a crack at it but can we please not take their numbers as gospel? Maybe we couldn't even be a little bit skeptical about the whole endeavour.

roseweird posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

America has gone and found itself on the way to energy self-sufficiency thanks to fracking.



for a little while, and at great cost to public health in wide swaths of rural communities, and maybe damaged the entire continent's water supply for centuries. we should be building solar panels and nuclear reactors instead.

the greenies whined about nuclear reactors here (even though we have 40% of the world's uranium) and now they whine about all the coal we use, you just can't win with these people!

Fracking is taking off here now and the funny part is that all minerals belong to 'The Crown' so landholders don't really get a say in anything, the mining companies work it out with the government. Have there been documented negative effects from the process in America? The most comprehensive case i've heard against it is that people watched the Gasland trailer on youtube and there was one bit where a flame came out the tap.

Anyways, i gather most of the activity is in red-state areas and they always wanted to kick ass and get gas so it's a win-win

roseweird posted:

france seems to be doing okay.

their nuclear construction programs have been significantly delayed and are running well over budget actually. Germany on the other hand...

i don't really see an alternative to nuclear power. neither population growth nor energy use per person globally are really declining, and energy efficiency of cities is not improving. solar panels require a lot of energy to manufacture and we won't have gobs of rich hydrocarbons around forever. what else is there, ethanol

the supply, replacement rates, and ROI on hydrocarbons are all much, much higher than that of uranium-235