codywilson posted:gwap posted:but for real, i can't see how someone who doesn't eat meat can justify eating plants.
very true, but so long as the food production doesn't eliminate the life then I don't see the problem. So eggs, milk, fruits and some veggies, nuts, beans, etc. are, if one is concerned with sustaining herself without eliminating life, prob the best choices.
i just don't get the vegan "don't eat eggs/drink milk" thing. if one conceptualizes of an ethical diet as a diet that avoids the loss of life, then eggs are awesome. they aren't gonna do anything but rot on the ground. free-roaming, egg dropping chickens, that's where its at.
What is this bullshit? you cant garden without eliminating life, weeds, pest etc... or at least unduly privileging some forms of life over others. helping one plant compete for resources hurts the survival of others.
using ladybugs to kill aphids or cats to kill mice is the same as using traps and poison
Noosphere posted:What is this bullshit? you cant garden without eliminating life, weeds, pest etc... or at least unduly privileging some forms of life over others. helping one plant compete for resources hurts the survival of others.
using ladybugs to kill aphids or cats to kill mice is the same as using traps and poison
yeah, i agree. i eat whatever. but I was just saying that if one were to try and eat without eliminating other life, then eggs are probably your best bet. (along with plants where you can take things from them while the plant overall stays alive.) but i don't try to live that way, because its like you said.
Panopticon posted:denn du bist was du isst
wörtliche Scheiße?
libelous_slander posted:Panopticon posted:denn du bist was du isst
wörtliche Scheiße?
swampman posted:so when you guys are eating your bowls of pig parts, do you ever think about a screaming sow pig being dragged on its useless, bloated knees, across concrete smeared with shit, urine, blood and pus, to be beaten to death and hosed down before its vivisection, so then have to think about those genocidal alley cats or the inherent injustice of windowsill herb gardens to make yourself feel better again..?
I think about the horrible conditions of factory farms for the laborers who staff them. The actual unpunished genocides that make my middle class american life so comfortable. The murdered people who's land I occupy, the deported laborers who built my house. the insane amount of violence and environmental destruction necessary for me to drive to work in the morning, the slave labor that makes most of my clothing and the children who dig the coltan for my smartphone. and the putrid self congratulatory despair of knowing all these things and doing nothing about them.
I think about the screaming pigs while i cook season the pork chops, beakless chickens as i crack the eggs, migrant farm workers as i dredge the flour and literal fucking slavery as i heat up the palm oil.
obviously, "things are shit so there is no point in trying to make them a little less shit" is stupid thing to say
but what ever
Noosphere posted:swampman posted:so when you guys are eating your bowls of pig parts, do you ever think about a screaming sow pig being dragged on its useless, bloated knees, across concrete smeared with shit, urine, blood and pus, to be beaten to death and hosed down before its vivisection, so then have to think about those genocidal alley cats or the inherent injustice of windowsill herb gardens to make yourself feel better again..?
I think about the horrible conditions of factory farms for the laborers who staff them. The actual unpunished genocides that make my middle class american life so comfortable. The murdered people who's land I occupy, the deported laborers who built my house. the insane amount of violence and environmental destruction necessary for me to drive to work in the morning, the slave labor that makes most of my clothing and the children who dig the coltan for my smartphone. and the putrid self congratulatory despair of knowing all these things and doing nothing about them.
I think about the screaming pigs while i cook season the pork chops, beakless chickens as i crack the eggs, migrant farm workers as i dredge the flour and literal fucking slavery as i heat up the palm oil.
obviously, "things are shit so there is no point in trying to make them a little less shit" is stupid thing to say
but what ever
Yes, participation in life, which is cruel at its base, is unavoidable.
But, cows and pigs have a comparable kind of awareness, experience of pain, and need for physical and mental stimulation and social interaction to most other mammals including ourselves. Farmed animals are generally tortured their entire lives until death. Working conditions in slaughterhouses are especially dangerous and unjust. Red meat is not historically a main part of the human diet but an occasional supplement, and is pretty bad for you when eaten in large quantities. The antibiotics, hormones, and environmental conditions that go into producing this meat, should alone be enough to make you refuse to eat it. Considering these things, not eating meat seems like a pretty easy way out of what sounds like a life filled with guilt over your bad choices.
I think a large problem is the idea that your protein source should be presented the way steak is, or the way a burger is. However when food is prepared in a soup or stew style, it often bypasses human sensitivity to appearance. try hiding some frog leg meat in a soup and see if anyone notices.
never had alligator or other lizard but i've heard it compared favorably to fowl.
Here's a link about edible insects/bugs worldwide:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/44991193/ns/travel-news/#.Upj3TtJQFic
The article has lost the pictures/headers but you can glean what type of creature each of those are via the descriptions. The animals that share ancestry with current western socially accepted protein sources are especially obvious candidates. If you enjoy crab and lobster, why is scorpion not ok, if they're both arthropods? (It should be noted that the toxicity/levels/effictiveness of venom in scorpions can be easily addressed by avoiding more lethal species and preparing them correctly)
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swampman posted:so when you guys are eating your bowls of pig parts, do you ever think about a screaming sow pig being dragged on its useless, bloated knees, across concrete smeared with shit, urine, blood and pus, to be beaten to death and hosed down before its vivisection, so then have to think about those genocidal alley cats or the inherent injustice of windowsill herb gardens to make yourself feel better again..?
yes except for that last part
I thought of you
codywilson posted:gwap posted:but for real, i can't see how someone who doesn't eat meat can justify eating plants.
very true, but so long as the food production doesn't eliminate the life then I don't see the problem. So eggs, milk, fruits and some veggies, nuts, beans, etc. are, if one is concerned with sustaining herself without eliminating life, prob the best choices.
i just don't get the vegan "don't eat eggs/drink milk" thing. if one conceptualizes of an ethical diet as a diet that avoids the loss of life, then eggs are awesome. they aren't gonna do anything but rot on the ground. free-roaming, egg dropping chickens, that's where its at.
Minimization of loss of life is not the main criteria by which vegans judge their diets, I think. In our current mode of production eggs and milk are eaten at enormous cost in terms of animal suffering, however, so there's a justification. Of coures true veganism often hinges on extreme notions of animal rights within which even the ownership of a milk cow in ideal bucolic settings becomes immoral. Weak veganism or vegetarianism does not categorically condemn all consumption of animal protein, but acknowledges that within the context of modern america it is unnecessary and has many negative effects.
Joe_the_Plumber posted:I was watching the soviet silent film, Strike on netflix last night. Was a really good movie with a sudden scene of a cow graphically being slaughtered out of nowhere toward the end.
I thought of you
same but apocalypse nao
Panopticon posted:roseweird posted:dusz2 posted:Human supremacy ftw
humans can only prove they are worthy of supremacy by demonstrating discretion and empathy
treat an axiom as a conclusion? idk, it often seems like conversations on the rhizzone were held in other places and then transplanted here halfway through
heh its like a cult where everyone thinks they are the prophet
roseweird posted:i don't know what i did so i guess not
i meant the autistic posting