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liberalcat is liberal
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tpaine posted:hahaha jesus
apparently the argument goes like this:
1. the american military has a rule that says people who have gender issues are looney tunes and need to be kicked out and shouldn't be trusted with sensitive files and so on.
2. the charges say that manning did wrong to the american military according to their rules.
3. given 1 and 2, manning ought to have been removed from duty and had their security access revoked, meaning that according to their own protocol, the military created the problem, not (fully) manning.
1. the american military has a rule that says people who have gender issues are looney tunes and need to be kicked out and shouldn't be trusted with sensitive files and so on.
2. the charges say that manning did wrong to the american military according to their rules.
3. given 1 and 2, manning ought to have been removed from duty and had their security access revoked, meaning that according to their own protocol, the military created the problem, not (fully) manning.
well the military has had to change its policies to be more accepting of certain types of individuals in order to satisfy progressive types no matter how much it undermines national security, if they had their druthers someone like manning never would have been let in. then of course half the progressives cheered the security leak anyway and think manning should be lauded as a hero
oh thx for that little dose of reality w/r/t the military policy. i really think most of us here at lf lack that sort of common sense and reason in our understanding of things to make sober insights like that.
DRUXXX posted:
oh thx for that little dose of reality w/r/t the military policy. i really think most of us here at lf lack that sort of common sense and reason in our understanding of things to make sober insights like that.
same. im drink 247 and blind so i cant even read things
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christmas_cheer posted:
well the military has had to change its policies to be more accepting of certain types of individuals in order to satisfy progressive types no matter how much it undermines national security
win-win imo
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i would literally nuke it from orbit
Moon Zionism ftw
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ya it seems like people jsut arent ready to cut the throats out of their friends and neighbors. the dedication to lob off thumbs from a hand laid against a rock or stump with a swipe from the machete is lacking in todays 'left'
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yeah, like, instead of buying starbucks fair trade you could throw a fuckin rock through the window!
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this is not my beautiful sober commentary thread on the implications of a police state obsessed with the spread of information
the reason why his defence is not "i did it to stop an illegal war" is because a "defence" is usually supposed to try to not get you put in jail forever.
liberal trot glenn greenwald weighs in
I don't feel comfortable viewing Manning as an abstract cause. He's a just-turned-24-year-old kid whose life is on the line, literally, and whatever he and his lawyers think has the best chance of keeping him out of a cage for the next six decades or avoiding a death sentence is something they should do, no matter how distasteful it is to me or even politically counter-productive it might be.
I haven't seen all the evidence. The proceedings are shrouded in secrecy. And I don't know what the preferences are of the client: Manning. So I'm really loathe to second-guess what they're doing.
Of course I hate seeing them blame his noble acts on a mental illness, and hate even more having gender issues characterized that way (though I am sure that being a 22-year-old with gender struggles in the middle of the Iraq war - in a military that bans you even from being openly gay - does produce real psychological distress). I would love for Manning to stand up in court and say: I did it and I should have done it - my duty as a soldier compelled it.
But it's not my preferences that should govern their strategy.
You can make the argument, as you have, that public opinion is their best shot at getting some leniency. Maybe: public outrage over his treatment in detention is clearly what resulted in improved conditions.
But I can easily see the other side: that "military justice" is so skewed in general, and in this case so pre-programmed to ensure conviction, that trying the case in public could just alienate the military judges and make things worse. I can see how they might conclude that their best hope is to play to their prejudices - have some mercy: look at how mentally ill he is - and I just can't bring myself to say he shouldn't do that if he thinks it's best for his interests.
To be honest, watching the whole thing is something I'm having a hard time doing: I think his conviction is so inevitable, and the injustices that will produce it so overwhelming, that it just makes me ill contemplating what's happening to him.
glandular grendlewild shows reason and fairness
do it to juliabreanna
discipline posted:
as I understand it, the manning defense is less "I did it to stop an illegal war" and more like "I did it because I am trans and you are foolish to let me into your army."
agreed
discipline posted:
I think what manning did was pretty ridiculous. at first I respected it as a legitimate action because it seemed like a political thing with political motivations but now thanks to the CIA-leaked logs of manning talking about being lonely and trans and releasing the cables to impress an internet stranger, I feel like I care less about this case. but let's talk about the impact this will have on the LGBT community. I'm a CIA patsy. can anyone find pics of manning in a dress for me? thanks in advance
this is a much better reason than "political reasons"
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discipline posted:
maybe it's all this carlos the jackal miniseries I've been watching but I don't think people understand the meaning of sacrifice for the cause nowadays
yea maybe its the Four Lions i just watched but i agree. here, in Mexico, the Internet may not be so good, but, hey, lady, ive even sacrificed my amphetamines
History waits for no transwoman! Manning as an abstract individual ftw. You cant hug children with abstract arms, Oh Yes you can
im sorry but as the parent of a child with abstraction spectrum disorder i find that very offensive
just because my children arent representative doesnt mean theyre not people!! i love them blocks of solid colour and all
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fucking bacon janice. do you not understand. are you incapable of comprehension. fucking. bacon. janice. it's christmas