roseweird posted:what was better about it before
go to the old pages and check. it was dominated by serious discussion
ilmdge posted:go to the old pages and check. it was dominated by serious discussion
serious discussion is neither serious, not dominate. discuss
roseweird posted:what was better about it before
well most of the krazy krew was around in addition to some other wacky/super smart folks, but there were also normal folks to serve as a foil and create conflicts. intellectual conflicts even, sometimes. now the old trolls and occasional lost misanthropes still start arguments, but even IWC's heart ain't in it anymore
what we desperately need are infrateal and 50 feckless but eager young posters to bring about a new lf renaissance
Sincerely,
Dat Boy Drew
Superabound posted:i still say the main (only?) loss from the closure of lf was the endless stream of little guppy-ass D&D nubchums to clown all over all day every day
Put a banner ad on SA and I'm sure your dreams will come true.
Someone make a banner for Rhizzone
SOMEONE make a "<Lets Read> Capitalism And Schizophrenia" thread so this forum can become SERIOUS again!!
*jumps up and starts shadowboxing*
roseweird posted:gyryfry, whom i call friend:
sometimes when you post i feel you do not really see me as a person but merely as a transgender caricature on which to project some awkward insecurity that is unknown and unimportant to me. but please know that i love and forgive you all the same.
in the name of holy mercy,
melissa iphigenia p. weir-anathoth
i am naught but what God and the jewish conspiracy have made me
I have some suggestions, and the decision should depend on what people are most interested in.
If we want to do Greece, then we could do one of Plato's shorter dialogues. They are all available for free on the internet, they could be done in one sitting, and Plato throws out so many ideas and arguments that there's always something to discuss. Alternatively, we could grab something longer and pick a pair of Plutarch's Lives and the comparison chapter, or read Xenophon's Agesilaus or Cyropaideia; they're all pretty lively so it shouldn't get too dry. If we're not afraid of dryness or length, then we could go book by book into some Aristotle, there's a fair few texts that are pleasant to read as well as good content-wise. Hell if someone wants to, they could start a thread on Archimedes or Euclid, but I think people will be more interested in some moral-history or a short dialogue.
There are Chinese works we could read, too. XunZi is a favourite of mine but I don't know whether an English copy is readily accessible online. The Book of Lord Shang might be a good fit for this forum because it's a relatively obscure text that holds a lot of extreme ideas; it's also available for free in PDF format if you google it. There are some other choices, but I think those two would be a good fit for the forum; I guess we could grab single chapters from GuanZi or LuShiChunQiu if we wanted to.
Anyway, some suggestions. I really did read the first book or two of the Green Book but it sucked so hard that we all quit.
will not be banished, and if rewards are bestowed for virtuous actions that
have been achieved by the people, then offences will not cease. Now, if
punishments cannot banish villainy, nor rewards put an end to offences, there
will doubtless be disorder. Therefore, in the case of one who attains
supremacy, punishments are applied at the intent to sin, so that great depravity
cannot be bred ; and rewards are bestowed on the denouncement of villainy,
so that minor sins do not escape unnoticed...
...This is my way of reverting to virtue by death-penalties,and of making righteousness a corollary to violence."
oh shit it's Minority Report, Ancient China Director's Cut Edition
I listened to an audio version of Aristotle's Eudaimonia recently but slept through ost of it, in hindsight it probably would have been more enjoyable reading a physical copy I could take notes in but still I was underwhelmed.
What's the Lord Shang work about? I like'd Symposium when I read it so I'd definitely go in for another of Plato's dialogues.
Probably the only way I would participate in a reading is if it was short and entertaining.
I approve of the Plato suggestion, he is legitimately fun and thought-provoking to read.
As for the Bible, Ecclesiastes is a wonderfully insightful and short book. Jonah is only a few pages long, and entertaining.
Agnus_Dei posted:I think at least twice old LF tried to read Capital only for everyone to give up.
Probably the only way I would participate in a reading is if it was short and entertaining.
I approve of the Plato suggestion, he is legitimately fun and thought-provoking to read.
As for the Bible, Ecclesiastes is a wonderfully insightful and short book. Jonah is only a few pages long, and entertaining.
let's construct the marxism megathread
Squalid posted:I'd be up for reading more classics. Just finished Anabasis and it was super awesome, currently reading the Tale of Genj. Lykourgos if you aren't familiar The Tale of Genji it's a 11th century Japanese work of fiction, so far it's philosophic content is limited, but it still offers a glimpse at a really distant culture still in its youth, you might have even read the weird Chinese authors the writer keeps mentioning.
I listened to an audio version of Aristotle's Eudaimonia recently but slept through ost of it, in hindsight it probably would have been more enjoyable reading a physical copy I could take notes in but still I was underwhelmed.
What's the Lord Shang work about? I like'd Symposium when I read it so I'd definitely go in for another of Plato's dialogues.
Eudaimonia? Do you mean the Eudemian Ethics/Ethika Eudemia?
I haven't read the Japanese text, the whole country is too recent for my tastes. It was better when all there was off the coast of china was a sea monster keeping the first emperor away from his immortality potion. I'm curious which ancient Chinese authors the text refers to, though; I am not familiar with Chinese texts after early Han.
The Book of Lord Shang is a legalist text from some unknown time around the Warring States/Qin period. Shang Yang was a Qin official in the 4th century BC, but he couldn't have written the present text (at least not all of it, anyway). The text was one of the first ancient works I read, and it is the most extreme and brutal text I have ever read, modern or ancient. It is also a real book; by that I mean, it's not like you're just reading some idiot's blog about how he wants to blow everyone up. This text was evidently written in a serious tone by educated officials and their students. I have read it four or five times now, in English and Chinese, over the last 8 years.
Like many ancient Chinese texts, it's a mish-mash of chapters that sometimes contradict one another, but it is unique in its position even when compared to other Legalist texts. It is dedicated to creating an all-encompassing state apparatus that controls every aspect of the entire population so that the whole effort of the nation can be put towards agriculture and warfare. There are common ideas with other works like the HanFeiZi, but The Book of Lord Shang is more brutal and focused on the political goal. All people will have their place defined in law, if a person acts beyond or beneath his allotted position he will be punished with death, the people will be organized into groups to spy on each other and executed en masse if they fail to rat each other out, temples will be raised to the law throughout China and the statutes will be guarded within, etc.
I don't think it's as valuable as I did when I first read it, but I still read it. Rather, I think the extreme legalists are wrong, and that XunZi is right in his focus on identifying good men rather than the drafting and imposition of thorough laws. In speaking about developments like unified measurements and government regulations, XunZi says:
"the units of measurement and the modes of calculation are the consequence, not the source, of order. The gentleman is the well-spring of order... If the wellspring is clear, the outflow will be clear; if the wellspring is muddy, the outflow will be muddy."
and
"Someone inquires about administering the state. I reply: I have heard about cultivating character, but I have never heard about administering the state.
The ruler is the sundial; the people are the shadow. If the form is upright, then the shadow will be upright. The ruler is the bowl; the people the water. If the bowl is round, then the water will be round; if it is square, then the water will be square.
If the lord is as an archer, then his ministers will be thumb rings. King Zhuang of Chu was fond of small-waisted men, consequently his court was composed of men who starved themselves. Thus I say: I have heard about cultivating character, but I have never heard about administering the state."
(both quotes from On The Way of a Lord)
Similarly, I think the Spartans understood that the quest is to raise a strong citizenry, and I think the most important part of common law is the quality of the judiciary and lawyers.
But anyway, The Book of Lord Shang would be a good thread for this forum. I just don't think I can give the time right now; I have long hours at work, both regular hours and unpaid overtime covering positions that the budget can't, and some family medical issues require me to travel interstate every week. But if there's enough interest I will do it and I'll definitely participate if someone else does it.
If anyone needs inspiration for joining in or just reading the classics alone, remember what XunZi said,
"Truly if you do not climb a high mountain, you will be unaware of the height of the sky. If you do not look down into a deep gorge, you will be unaware of the thickness of the earth.
If you have not heard the words inherited from the Ancient Kings, you will be unaware of the greatness of learning and inquiry." (from An Exhortation to Learning)
roseweird posted:let us read phaedrus, that the people of the rhizzone may understand love, and also understand the glory of the olympian gods
Okay, make the thread
roseweird posted:lykourgos probably does not like zhuangzi much but i wish every one would read him
also, the bible
I'm not a big Zhuangzi fan, but it's been a long time since I paid him much attention. I have reread select books within the last year or two, but that's about it. I like the fan-fiction about Confucius and Robber Zhi if only because it makes me smile.
EDIT: Here is a link to the PDF for The Book of Lord Shang:
http://classiques.uqac.ca/classiques/duyvendak_jjl/B25_book_of_lord_shang/duyvlord.pdf
Edited by Lykourgos ()
Lykourgos posted:"Truly if you do not climb a high mountain, you will be unaware of the height of the sky. If you do not look down into a deep gorge, you will be unaware of the thickness of the earth.
Ancient Chinese wise man didn't know about trigonometry.