AmericanNazbro posted:i really don't think it's that difficult of a concept to grasp, granted, i don't Care enough to word it better for the sake of those with autism, but i was speaking in regards to how following the civil rights movement african americans were still discriminated against, and are still criminalized today, tho it took on a different forms -- not that civil rights or lgtb issues aren't legitimate issues. it was implied they are legitimate issues but the way the movement was coopted by capital prevented these issues from actually being resolved
Racism is a belief, not a structure of oppression.
AmericanNazbro posted:so there can't be structural institutions of racism, i.e. the american criminal justice system?
Not unless you want to redefine what everyone means when they talk about racism. It's sometimes okay to invent specialized terminology like 'structural racism', but it should be made clear that if the term has anything to do with 'racism' as we already understand it, it has to be shown, not assumed.
AmericanNazbro posted:i really don't think it's that difficult of a concept to grasp, granted, i don't Care enough to word it better for the sake of those with autism, but i was speaking in regards to how following the civil rights movement african americans were still discriminated against, and are still criminalized today, tho it took on a different forms -- not that civil rights or lgtb issues aren't legitimate issues. it was implied they are legitimate issues but the way the movement was coopted by capital prevented these issues from actually being resolved
you just did word it better for those among us with autism
babyfinland posted:AmericanNazbro posted:i really don't think it's that difficult of a concept to grasp, granted, i don't Care enough to word it better for the sake of those with autism, but i was speaking in regards to how following the civil rights movement african americans were still discriminated against, and are still criminalized today, tho it took on a different forms -- not that civil rights or lgtb issues aren't legitimate issues. it was implied they are legitimate issues but the way the movement was coopted by capital prevented these issues from actually being resolved
you just did word it better for those among us with autism
i am a failure and a liar but i am not Mad nor do i Care. important distinction (note the undercapitalization and grammatical errors)
AmericanNazbro posted:i don't think that's true at all, you can talk to a lot of different people who will agree that the police force in america is extremely racist and discriminates disproportionally against african americans. so what you're saying isn't really true? i dunno
Are they racist or structurally racist? Discriminating disproportionately against african americans doesn't make that clear, or whether there's a connection between the two.
AmericanNazbro posted:tpaine posted:the problem with identity politics is really just a subset of the major issue which is that people are inherently ungovernable and not worth saving from themselves, this is the inherent flaw of any kind of grand design. we don't fucking deserve it
but humans made the final fantasy series, thomas. if humanity went extinct, it would be the end of the final fantasy franchise as we know it.
i haven't played any since FFX because FFX was really bad. No skin off my back.
AmericanNazbro posted:can we define what identity politics are here? are there non-bourgeois iterations of identity politics? when i think identity politics i automatically assume it's liberalism. is that incorrect?
like i just assume it to be the equivalent of fighting for the rights of gays in the military or something. i don't even think that causes a change in cultural perception of gays, it's more along the lines of how the civil rights movement gave blacks equal rights in the eyes of the law but their segregation rates and poverty levels remained identical to before that period. correct me if i'm wrong here.
this is wrong, not because of whatever baby finland is complaining about, but because society isn't divided up into "bourgeois liberalism" vs "authentic revolutionary struggle", that's a completely fallacious way of looking at the world. forget identity politics, in the sense you're talking about 95% of historical working class politics has been bourgeois liberalism.
Lessons posted:AmericanNazbro posted:can we define what identity politics are here? are there non-bourgeois iterations of identity politics? when i think identity politics i automatically assume it's liberalism. is that incorrect?
like i just assume it to be the equivalent of fighting for the rights of gays in the military or something. i don't even think that causes a change in cultural perception of gays, it's more along the lines of how the civil rights movement gave blacks equal rights in the eyes of the law but their segregation rates and poverty levels remained identical to before that period. correct me if i'm wrong here.this is wrong, not because of whatever baby finland is complaining about, but because society isn't divided up into "bourgeois liberalism" vs "authentic revolutionary struggle", that's a completely fallacious way of looking at the world. forget identity politics, in the sense you're talking about 95% of historical working class politics has been bourgeois liberalism.
thats what i was whining like a baby about, a little autistic baby who whines and cries and is stupid
babyfinland posted:Lessons posted:
AmericanNazbro posted:
can we define what identity politics are here? are there non-bourgeois iterations of identity politics? when i think identity politics i automatically assume it's liberalism. is that incorrect?
like i just assume it to be the equivalent of fighting for the rights of gays in the military or something. i don't even think that causes a change in cultural perception of gays, it's more along the lines of how the civil rights movement gave blacks equal rights in the eyes of the law but their segregation rates and poverty levels remained identical to before that period. correct me if i'm wrong here.
this is wrong, not because of whatever baby finland is complaining about, but because society isn't divided up into "bourgeois liberalism" vs "authentic revolutionary struggle", that's a completely fallacious way of looking at the world. forget identity politics, in the sense you're talking about 95% of historical working class politics has been bourgeois liberalism.
thats what i was whining like a baby about, a little autistic baby who whines and cries and is stupid
The Democratic frontrunner in the race for mayor of New York City has been running a “class-warfare and racist” campaign, according to New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg (I). In an interview with New York Magazine published on Saturday, Bloomberg accused the city’s public advocate, Bill de Blasio, of shoving his family into the limelight in order to gain support from non-white voters.
Lessons posted:95% of historical working class politics has been bourgeois liberalism.
which is why socialism isn't real
the greatest socialist in history was joe stalin and he's less popular than HIV so like let's go pray instead
Superabound posted:gay men are bougie as fuck. sory about your Reloveution
Gays are obsessed with irony.
i haven't played any since FFX because FFX was really bad. No skin off my back.
Lessons posted:AmericanNazbro posted:can we define what identity politics are here? are there non-bourgeois iterations of identity politics? when i think identity politics i automatically assume it's liberalism. is that incorrect?
like i just assume it to be the equivalent of fighting for the rights of gays in the military or something. i don't even think that causes a change in cultural perception of gays, it's more along the lines of how the civil rights movement gave blacks equal rights in the eyes of the law but their segregation rates and poverty levels remained identical to before that period. correct me if i'm wrong here.this is wrong, not because of whatever baby finland is complaining about, but because society isn't divided up into "bourgeois liberalism" vs "authentic revolutionary struggle", that's a completely fallacious way of looking at the world. forget identity politics, in the sense you're talking about 95% of historical working class politics has been bourgeois liberalism.
ya i didn't mean to imply some kind of a false dichotomy here and be an arbiter of what's an "authentic revolutionary struggle" or whatever nonsense about marxist ideological purity. it was just a throw away comment asking for people to define what they meant when they talked about identity politics, what it is or what they're referring to by it. for me anyways, the term itself and when i see it used, carries a connotation of a movement coopted by capital and sold as a commodity of morality and being separated from issues of class/power disparity. not that the underlying issues are illegitimate or i'm dismissing them or anything like that
dunno i was just curious about the term, due to how it was being thrown around in the thread in a vague manner, serving as just an empty signifier
swirlsofhistory posted:AmericanNazbro posted:i don't think that's true at all, you can talk to a lot of different people who will agree that the police force in america is extremely racist and discriminates disproportionally against african americans. so what you're saying isn't really true? i dunno
Are they racist or structurally racist? Discriminating disproportionately against african americans doesn't make that clear, or whether there's a connection between the two.
speaking of autism...
AmericanNazbro posted:Lessons posted:AmericanNazbro posted:can we define what identity politics are here? are there non-bourgeois iterations of identity politics? when i think identity politics i automatically assume it's liberalism. is that incorrect?
like i just assume it to be the equivalent of fighting for the rights of gays in the military or something. i don't even think that causes a change in cultural perception of gays, it's more along the lines of how the civil rights movement gave blacks equal rights in the eyes of the law but their segregation rates and poverty levels remained identical to before that period. correct me if i'm wrong here.this is wrong, not because of whatever baby finland is complaining about, but because society isn't divided up into "bourgeois liberalism" vs "authentic revolutionary struggle", that's a completely fallacious way of looking at the world. forget identity politics, in the sense you're talking about 95% of historical working class politics has been bourgeois liberalism.
ya i didn't mean to imply some kind of a false dichotomy here and be an arbiter of what's an "authentic revolutionary struggle" or whatever nonsense about marxist ideological purity. it was just a throw away comment asking for people to define what they meant when they talked about identity politics, what it is or what they're referring to by it. for me anyways, the term itself and when i see it used, carries a connotation of a movement coopted by capital and sold as a commodity of morality and being separated from issues of class/power disparity. not that the underlying issues are illegitimate or i'm dismissing them or anything like that
dunno i was just curious about the term, due to how it was being thrown around in the thread in a vague manner, serving as just an empty signifier
well i mean it's pretty trivial to find black or feminist groups that were socialists, unless you wanna be like "well the black panthers don't count as ID politics".
besline posted:Lessons is right that FFX is a bad game. FFX-2 is the good game, one that corrects all of FFX's flaws and also has a better story than the vast majority of FF games. It eschews the standard, tired "get together and save the world" plot for a mature focus on the fallout from that sort of story and reveals the two-dimensional love interest as a three-dimensional woman trying to balance her celebrity status and idealized doomed previous romance with the harsh demands and expectations of a post-event reality that no longer orbits around her long-dead love.
yeah i heard against all odds and expectations X-2 actually turned out pretty well. i'm still not going to go back and play it though.
Lessons posted:well i mean it's pretty trivial to find black or feminist groups that were socialists, unless you wanna be like "well the black panthers don't count as ID politics".
"were"
Skylark posted:basically the way life works is you work as hard as you can to reach a position of notoriety and respect in your community, then you cash it all in for a sexual experience with sexy child, maybe a couple if you're lucky, and then you can spend the rest of your life masturbating to memories of your little traipses through sexual paradise
ha thats such an idealistic way of looking at the world. open your mind to dialectics and realize you have the ability to change this destructive cycle.