#121
UNUSUALY COOL
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tpaine posted:

you are NOT my dad!



you had asked previously so i wasn't sure

#122
[account deactivated]
#123
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daddyholes posted:

discipline posted:

capital is the nastiest of the nasties, which is why no one ever says the word "capitalism" much anymore lol

in my subjective experience i feel like i have seen and heard more liberals write and talk about "capitalism" over the last five years than i had in my entire life previous, to the point that it does not seem like a Catchphrase when i talk about it with people anymore

but i think probably measured against like the entire century of 1870-1970 yeah probably you are right



i feel like whenever i hear the word 'capitalism' it's being used negatively by a leftist. even when getting into lib stuff they seem to euphemistically refer to it as 'free market enterprise' or whatever.

though i guess i do see some liberal capitalist apologists who seemingly use the word regrettably positively with the whole "not perfect, but the best we can do" mindset. so i guess it does get thrown around more diversely than i think.

#124
UNUSUALY COOL
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no i see liberals using it negatively nowadays like they are sympathetic to the left
#125
UNUSUALY COOL
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fixed, tpaine
#126
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babyfinland posted:

yes the unfortunate and unique case in history of biased sources


I consider myself to be a Black Legend truther.

#127
Kurdt
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capitalism is my dad
#128
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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we are all Capitalism's Dead Gay Son
#129
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discipline posted:

slumlord posted:

credit crisis

a strike is a willful cessation of work. this would imply that capital works (it doesn't) and also that capital is an amorphous sentient being instead of a bunch of idiot fucking traders and factory owners. if capital stops moving it kills itself



capital is a factor of production though. like, i don't know what you're trying to argue here exactly - capital strikes have and do exist. i'll reel off examples if you like. venezuela has been dogged by capitalist sabotage and go-slows and strikes leading to things like toilet paper shortages, etc. do small proprietors (like truck drivers) not count either, as in chile in the 1970s?

capital can stop moving for a while if the result of that will be more profitable than not doing so. again, hence the assaults on leftist third world governments. it's also how welfare states get demolished basically everywhere. like do you think traders are completely automated when they decide to disinvest from the economy of a country that introduces progressive measures? like hell they are. they're dressing up a political decision as economic imperative, and for some reason you're buying that...

#130
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discipline posted:

capital is the nastiest of the nasties, which is why no one ever says the word "capitalism" much anymore lol



oh please this was true 6 years ago but it's not at all any more, you know this

#131
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codywilson posted:

daddyholes posted:

discipline posted:

capital is the nastiest of the nasties, which is why no one ever says the word "capitalism" much anymore lol

in my subjective experience i feel like i have seen and heard more liberals write and talk about "capitalism" over the last five years than i had in my entire life previous, to the point that it does not seem like a Catchphrase when i talk about it with people anymore

but i think probably measured against like the entire century of 1870-1970 yeah probably you are right

i feel like whenever i hear the word 'capitalism' it's being used negatively by a leftist. even when getting into lib stuff they seem to euphemistically refer to it as 'free market enterprise' or whatever.

though i guess i do see some liberal capitalist apologists who seemingly use the word regrettably positively with the whole "not perfect, but the best we can do" mindset. so i guess it does get thrown around more diversely than i think.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/14/opinion/friedman-capitalism-version-2012.html?_r=0

#132
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capital can stop moving for a while if the result of that will be more profitable than not doing so.

jools posted:


No, I think discipline is right here. I don't know how capital can know what the rate of profit is right now, let alone into the future. It's the real profits of the owners of capital and their decisions in response to those signals that have a causal effect on the rate of profit. Normal disinvestment and hoarding of capital occur on a large scale in response to profit signals to individual capitalists, and only when there's evidence that the political aspirations of individual or groups of capitalists are behind the decision to disinvest or hoard can it be called a capital(ist) strike.

#133
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there's a morgan stanley(or something) commercial that talks about defending capitalism or something

also milk is poison
#134
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video deleted

Edited by Lysenko ()

#135
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swirlsofhistory posted:

capital can stop moving for a while if the result of that will be more profitable than not doing so.

jools posted:

No, I think discipline is right here. I don't know how capital can know what the rate of profit is right now, let alone into the future. It's the real profits of the owners of capital and their decisions in response to those signals that have a causal effect on the rate of profit. Normal disinvestment and hoarding of capital occur on a large scale in response to profit signals to individual capitalists, and only when there's evidence that the political aspirations of individual or groups of capitalists are behind the decision to disinvest or hoard can it be called a capital(ist) strike.



strikes me you're treating capitalist political aspirations as a kind of exceptional motivation for their actions?

#136
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When playing capitalist, sure. It would be a different matter if we were talking about the longterm preservation of their class power, where the battles are waged in parliament, the university, on the streets – but where ideological positioning isn't dictated by the earnings report. I mean, we see stock market indexes and interest rates on government bonds rise or fall all the time in response to elections or civil unrest, but that's a reaction to how these events are expected to influence profits or equity, not a survey of the political motivations of capitalists as a group.
#137
Post rating: +
QlUhjXILXqs
#138
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2008 credit crsis is probablty the best and most readily visible example of a capital "strike" in that the normal functioning of finance was consciously halted out of perceived loss of profits, holding the entire economy hostage to extort greater profit margins. frther, highlighting exactly what jools was talking about with liberal ideology disregarding the existence of capital strikes as a nonfunction of capitalism, you have liberal economists like hudson, krugman and stiglitz claiming that this 2008 crisis was an aberration to the normal mechanisms of capitalism, it was a cancer that attacked the "wholesome" productive functioning of industrial capitalism because there was a divergence between finance capital and industrial capital, with the latter becoming subservient to finance capital rather than vice versa -- which is a redherrng entirely
#139
Dont Mess With Sucess
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does that mean that all the murders and burnoffs of value are capital's acts of sabotage
#140
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capital strikes are already implemented in corn: the game of classical political economy ergo they are fully for real.
#141
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jools posted:

capital can stop moving for a while if the result of that will be more profitable than not doing so. again, hence the assaults on leftist third world governments. it's also how welfare states get demolished basically everywhere. like do you think traders are completely automated when they decide to disinvest from the economy of a country that introduces progressive measures? like hell they are. they're dressing up a political decision as economic imperative, and for some reason you're buying that...




so how long can capital stop before it must again feed? how long can a 'smart' political strategy be maintained (by business men in a smokey backroom?) before the piper must be paid?

#142
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uhh... am i missing something here? doesn't capital go on strike fairly regularily, and do we not call these strikes "lock outs"?
#143
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Well when like 20% of USA industrial capacity is lying dormant while like 20% of the population wants work, or better work, seems pretty much like a capitalist strike.

They'd rather let their capital sit around not doing anything than pay the people to work with it.
#144
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AmericanNazbro posted:

Impper posted:

AmericanNazbro posted:

Impper posted:


disinvestment

yo impper, hows it going on? what you've been up to

i got a Job at a digital Agency and i also own Property and i do labor on it

are you still In Love Now

yeah

#145
[account deactivated]
#146
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: +

Impper posted:

AmericanNazbro posted:

Impper posted:

AmericanNazbro posted:

Impper posted:


disinvestment

yo impper, hows it going on? what you've been up to

i got a Job at a digital Agency and i also own Property and i do labor on it

are you still In Love Now

yeah

#147
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capital stinks!! whose with me?
#148
tardy on these heaters
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dude dragon knight is bad ass
#149
[account deactivated]
#150
Kurdt
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lol
#151
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tpaine posted:

change swampman's username to Owl Swearengen and give him this avatar

owl have some of that

#152
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Impper posted:

AmericanNazbro posted:

Impper posted:

AmericanNazbro posted:

Impper posted:


disinvestment

yo impper, hows it going on? what you've been up to

i got a Job at a digital Agency and i also own Property and i do labor on it

are you still In Love Now

yeah



When is the baby due.

#153
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there wont be a baby bro
#154
[account deactivated]
#155
Kurdt
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how is shmoopy
#156
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Impper posted:

there wont be a baby bro



going in jointly on buying a pet is the same thing bro, just with less disappointment.

#157
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i can tell just by the art pictures ive seen that there exists pictures of your pets dressed up in miniature human clothes, striking various forced poses
#158
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yo impper how is the new job? do you actually have to work
#159
[account deactivated]
#160
political car tune
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that was redfiesta