#241
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so what exactly is the material manifestation of what you call eugenics? or are you just being really clever and arguing that there can be nothing wrong with wanting a "healthier" gene pool, in theory...
#242
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Superabound posted:

youre basically just arguing against communism


lol

#243
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swirlsofhistory posted:

jools posted:

buht seriously roseweird, you asked about swedish eugenics https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1373617037393.pdf

Gotta love a good genetic fallacy, are you familiar with the work Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg?



what're you talking about

#244
Post rating: +

swirlsofhistory posted:

Superabound posted:

"But what if one day a severely disabled Downs Syndrome sufferer would have ended up doing something really important for humanity, like learning a song on the piano, or playing a psychic kid in a made for tv Stephen King movie? what then??"

Individuals with down syndrome are being accepted into universities with assigned learning aids who do the actual work for them because the university doesn't want to be accused of discriminating against the intellectually diverse.



what's actually wrong with this

#245
Post rating: ~

Superabound posted:

caprimulgus posted:

only one of these things lends itself to compulsory sterilisation and genocide...

nothing "leads" anywhere. compulsory sterilization and genocide are objectively bad things, eugenics isnt. this entire argument flattens out to pretty essential issues of individualist vs. collectivist based society. youre basically just arguing against communism



actually you're flattening it out by claiming societies can be simply divided into "individualist" vs "collectivist".

#246
[account deactivated]
#247
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tpaine posted:

jools posted:

swirlsofhistory posted:

Superabound posted:

"But what if one day a severely disabled Downs Syndrome sufferer would have ended up doing something really important for humanity, like learning a song on the piano, or playing a psychic kid in a made for tv Stephen King movie? what then??"

Individuals with down syndrome are being accepted into universities with assigned learning aids who do the actual work for them because the university doesn't want to be accused of discriminating against the intellectually diverse.

what's actually wrong with this

it makes my degree seems like a worthless non-achievm...wait...



#248
[account deactivated]
#249
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
Post rating: ~

caprimulgus posted:

so what exactly is the material manifestation of what you call eugenics? or are you just being really clever and arguing that there can be nothing wrong with wanting a "healthier" gene pool, in theory...



The Emmanuel Lewis-Webster Online Wiktionary defines Eugenics as "a social philosophy advocating the improvement of human hereditary traits through the promotion of higher reproduction of more desired people and traits, and reduced reproduction of less desired people and traits"

You will perhaps notice that this is coincidentally 100% identical to the already existing global process of Natural Selection

#250
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roseweird posted:

both eugenics and 'natural' human evolution (which can be interpreted as merely a eugenic program based directly on human sexual desire and reproductive success)



you're talking crap, in this post eugenics really just means reproduction. like if every woman took lucky dips from a communal spunk pool you'd call that eugenics based on random chance

#251
[account deactivated]
#252
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This is meaningless folks!
#253
Post rating: +

Superabound posted:

caprimulgus posted:

so what exactly is the material manifestation of what you call eugenics? or are you just being really clever and arguing that there can be nothing wrong with wanting a "healthier" gene pool, in theory...



The Emmanuel Lewis-Webster Online Wiktionary defines Eugenics as "a social philosophy advocating the improvement of human hereditary traits through the promotion of higher reproduction of more desired people and traits, and reduced reproduction of less desired people and traits"

You will perhaps notice that this is coincidentally 100% identical to the already existing global process of Natural Selection


even ignoring the fact that this is a fatuous appeal to nature, that definition is actually 0% identical to natural selection, because of the word 'desired' and the agency that implies

#254
[account deactivated]
#255
[account deactivated]
#256
Post rating: ~

jools posted:

swirlsofhistory posted:

Superabound posted:

"But what if one day a severely disabled Downs Syndrome sufferer would have ended up doing something really important for humanity, like learning a song on the piano, or playing a psychic kid in a made for tv Stephen King movie? what then??"

Individuals with down syndrome are being accepted into universities with assigned learning aids who do the actual work for them because the university doesn't want to be accused of discriminating against the intellectually diverse.



what's actually wrong with this


I take it you would be the first to partner with the down syndrome student in the lab. And hey, why not? If the work gets done, it's probably going to be by someone else paid to do it. The 'student' in this case is a body that sits in class for public relations reasons, and not because they're a real participant in a community of thinkers. Everyone is equal because it is hurtful to say otherwise.

#257
Post rating: ~

swirlsofhistory posted:

jools posted:

swirlsofhistory posted:

Superabound posted:

"But what if one day a severely disabled Downs Syndrome sufferer would have ended up doing something really important for humanity, like learning a song on the piano, or playing a psychic kid in a made for tv Stephen King movie? what then??"

Individuals with down syndrome are being accepted into universities with assigned learning aids who do the actual work for them because the university doesn't want to be accused of discriminating against the intellectually diverse.



what's actually wrong with this

I take it you would be the first to partner with the down syndrome student in the lab. And hey, why not? If the work gets done, it's probably going to be by someone else paid to do it. The 'student' in this case is a body that sits in class for public relations reasons, and not because they're a real participant in a community of thinkers. Everyone is equal because it is hurtful to say otherwise.



an undergraduate degree course is a community of thinkers????

#258
[account deactivated]
#259
Post rating: ~

roseweird posted:

caprimulgus posted:

Superabound posted:

caprimulgus posted:

so what exactly is the material manifestation of what you call eugenics? or are you just being really clever and arguing that there can be nothing wrong with wanting a "healthier" gene pool, in theory...



The Emmanuel Lewis-Webster Online Wiktionary defines Eugenics as "a social philosophy advocating the improvement of human hereditary traits through the promotion of higher reproduction of more desired people and traits, and reduced reproduction of less desired people and traits"

You will perhaps notice that this is coincidentally 100% identical to the already existing global process of Natural Selection

even ignoring the fact that this is a fatuous appeal to nature, that definition is actually 0% identical to natural selection, because of the word 'desired' and the agency that implies

hmm yes, desire is completely irrelevant to natural selection, that makes sense



yes, it is, it's much more to do with who dies than anything else.

#260
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
Post rating: ~

caprimulgus posted:

even ignoring the fact that this is a fatuous appeal to nature, that definition is actually 0% identical to natural selection, because of the word 'desired' and the agency that implies



lol "agency". please, limiting yourself exclusively to social justice terms, explain exactly how the "promotion of higher reproduction of more desired organisms and traits, and reduced reproduction of less desired organisms and traits" is 0% identical to the process of Natural Selection

is the only sticking point here really just the subtle difference between "desired" and "environmentally advantageous"? i mean yeah, youre going to run into significant moral issues with Eugenics if you let what is considered a "desirable trait" be determined by class position and various political factions rather than what actually confers the best survival benefits to the organism/species. But engineering astronauts to have higher natural bone densities is not even nearly the same thing as say, instituting a One Child Policy for all nonwhites

#261
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
Post rating: ~
"look, im all for nutritious plants and herbs growing out of the dirt for humans to eat and thrive upon, but deliberately PLANTING them there, in neat rows, for that same purpose? madness! madness i tell you!"
#262
Post rating: +

swirlsofhistory posted:

jools posted:

swirlsofhistory posted:

Superabound posted:

"But what if one day a severely disabled Downs Syndrome sufferer would have ended up doing something really important for humanity, like learning a song on the piano, or playing a psychic kid in a made for tv Stephen King movie? what then??"

Individuals with down syndrome are being accepted into universities with assigned learning aids who do the actual work for them because the university doesn't want to be accused of discriminating against the intellectually diverse.



what's actually wrong with this

I take it you would be the first to partner with the down syndrome student in the lab. And hey, why not? If the work gets done, it's probably going to be by someone else paid to do it. The 'student' in this case is a body that sits in class for public relations reasons, and not because they're a real participant in a community of thinkers. Everyone is equal because it is hurtful to say otherwise.


there are a bunch of different programs in universities to help struggling people you self-righteous idiot

#263
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
Post rating: ~
if you wouldnt gladly marry, have sex with, and impregnate a woman with Downs Syndrome then you are literally a Nazi Eugenicist


yes i realize that the vast majority of Downs cases are the result of random mutation and not hereditary
#264
Post rating: +

Superabound posted:

caprimulgus posted:

even ignoring the fact that this is a fatuous appeal to nature, that definition is actually 0% identical to natural selection, because of the word 'desired' and the agency that implies



lol "agency". please, limiting yourself exclusively to social justice terms, explain exactly how the "promotion of higher reproduction of more desired organisms and traits, and reduced reproduction of less desired organisms and traits" is 0% identical to the process of Natural Selection

is the only sticking point here really just the subtle difference between "desired" and "environmentally advantageous"? i mean yeah, youre going to run into significant moral issues with Eugenics if you let what is considered a "desirable trait" be determined by class position and various political factions rather than what actually confers the best survival benefits to the organism/species. But engineering astronauts to have higher natural bone densities is not even nearly the same thing as say, instituting a One Child Policy for all nonwhites


"engineering astronauts to have higher natural bone densities" lmao, this is exactly the kind of bullshit rhetoric someone would use before they instituted a one child policy for all nonwhites.

#265
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what does engineering higher bone densities for astronauts have to do with eugenics
#266
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swirlsofhistory intends to leave his children on top of a mountain for 2 days after they're born
#267
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
Post rating: ~

caprimulgus posted:

"engineering astronauts to have higher natural bone densities" lmao, this is exactly the kind of bullshit rhetoric someone would use before they instituted a one child policy for all nonwhites.



Black people actually have much higher natural bone densities than whites tmyk

#268
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#269
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If legalized abortion is ever reversed, it will come from a push to end laws that discriminate against the existence of the physically and developmentally diverse community, and not overt religious sentiment.
#270
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~

jools posted:

buht seriously roseweird, you asked about swedish eugenics https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1373617037393.pdf



jools! i am going to read this on sunday with coffee

#271
UNUSUALY COOL
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i am about to lose my university library access and i dont know how im going to cope
#272
Kurdt
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have you considered prayer
#273
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#274
[account deactivated]
#275
Online
Post rating: ~

roseweird posted:

jools posted:

roseweird posted:

both eugenics and 'natural' human evolution (which can be interpreted as merely a eugenic program based directly on human sexual desire and reproductive success)

you're talking crap, in this post eugenics really just means reproduction. like if every woman took lucky dips from a communal spunk pool you'd call that eugenics based on random chance

no i wouldn't, but i might call the reaction to the results eugenics

Do you like baseball weirderose?

#276
UNUSUALY COOL
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gyrofry posted:

have you considered prayer



thats definitely going to be part of it

#277
Post rating: ~

swirlsofhistory posted:

If legalized abortion is ever reversed, it will come from a push to end laws that discriminate against the existence of the physically and developmentally diverse community, and not overt religious sentiment.



lol what

#278
Kurdt
Post rating: +

jools posted:

communal spunk pool

former mod of goons with spoons

#279
Post rating: +

daddyholes posted:

i am about to lose my university library access and i dont know how im going to cope


I would be devastated if I got cut off from my online access. Imagine walking into the public library and the philosophy section is two dirty copies of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Capture and bottle that feeling because it's as real as anything is in life.

#280
[account deactivated]