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#204
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roseweird posted:

jools posted:

genocides arent eugenic unless you have fucking eugenics lol

it depends on the sense in which we use "eugenics". if we mean the actual modern ideology, based on a rudimentary understanding of genetics, sure, that's true. but if we refer more broadly to eugenics as self-directed evolution and the action of human will on the gene pool then i think the line between "practicing eugenics" and "allowing evolution to take its course" is really blurry because all sorts of rulers ordered purges in order to purify the blood and breeding stock of the people and exterminate undesirables and they obviously did this because they wanted certain kinds of humans to succeed and live and other kinds not to. that sounds like eugenics to me but maybe you have a different word for it



show me evidence that it's specifically put in terms of breeding stock and blood and all these other nazi terms that you freely throw about in relation to eugenics while simultaneously claiming you're not a nazi

#205
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roseweird posted:

also i support cloning and eugenics independently of my preference for completely suppressing males, developing alternatives to natural birth and using science to eliminate genetic diseases are obvious moral imperatives



what the hell is natural birth. given the unbelievably huge difference in childbirth risk comparing now to 1000 years ago, how is birth now or indeed then in any sense natural.

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#208
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roseweird posted:

discipline posted:

roseweird posted:

i've never proposed anything about anyone's ovaries, i've never advocated sterilizing anyone, restricting their actions, or medically altering them against their will in any way

what is this free market bullshit. ah yes a superhuman species will totally exist at total ease and harmony with the willfully normal and increasingly pathetic "human"

well no obviously i hope that people will choose to stop reproducing in the face of the obvious superiority of new humans, it seems like a much more peaceful take on evolution than the usual version where one evolutionary strain sets fire to or eats the others



heil hitler

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#210
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we just hope the jews/indians/blacks will choose to stop reproducing in the face of the obvious superiority of the aryans/europeans/whites, it seems a much more peaceful take on racial genocide than the usual version where one race sets fire to or eats the others
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roseweird posted:

i am sorry if the observation that humans have not yet reached The Pinnacle Of Evolution so disturbs you all, however you may be aware that humans at one time did not even exist



lmao you think evolution has a teleology. i thought you were studying biology

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#217
Kurdt
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The Mexican doll, which is dressed in a ruffled pink dress, comes with a passport and is accompanied by a small Chihuahua
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#221
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roseweird posted:

i am sorry if the observation that humans have not yet reached The Pinnacle Of Evolution so disturbs you all, however you may be aware that humans at one time did not even exist



what the fuck is the pinnacle of evolution?

#222
Kurdt
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*points to dilznick*
#223
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roseweird posted:

dank_xiaopeng posted:

what is your ideal vision of babies in the future rosie

grown together from a collection of dna patterns selected for optimal diversity and intercompatibility, in cells with shared hormone/nutrient baths, raised communally by intergenerational families (obv the first generations will instead be raised by people born via normal human pregnancy), educated with strong focus on life sciences and reverence for life and beauty



#224
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buht seriously roseweird, you asked about swedish eugenics https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1373617037393.pdf
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educated with strong focus on life sciences and reverence for life and beauty


nature is pretty bad and evil and horrifying,

#226
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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elemennop posted:

what the fuck is the pinnacle of evolution?



Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson

#227
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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the modern kneejerk aversion to eugenics or even basic discretionary genetic selection is funny to me since every woman who has ever walked into a sperm bank and requested anything other than "dealer's choice" has literally taken part in a system of eugenics several times more sophisticated than anything Hitler was working with in 1938. then again the idea of cannibalism doesnt bother me all that much either so maybe IM the asshole here
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Superabound posted:

every woman who has ever walked into a sperm bank and requested anything other than "dealer's choice" has literally taken part in a system of eugenics several times more sophisticated than anything Hitler was working with in 1938.


choosing who you want to have a child with isn't eugenics at all though

#229
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Superabound posted:

the modern kneejerk aversion to eugenics or even basic discretionary genetic selection is funny to me since every woman who has ever walked into a sperm bank and requested anything other than "dealer's choice" has literally taken part in a system of eugenics several times more sophisticated than anything Hitler was working with in 1938. then again the idea of cannibalism doesnt bother me all that much either so maybe IM the asshole here



Yeah and there are all sorts of restrictions if you want to become a donor. Not to mention that now most clinics have signs saying that donors must produce semen "by friction alone"

#230
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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caprimulgus posted:

choosing who you want to have a child with isn't eugenics at all though



ok but micro/macroevolution are terms used almost exclusively by Creationists

#231
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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also seed-shopping at a sperm bank isnt "choosing who you want to have a child with", its choosing which genetic phenotypes you want expressed in a potential child youre going to have with a completely different person
#232
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jools posted:

buht seriously roseweird, you asked about swedish eugenics https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1373617037393.pdf


Gotta love a good genetic fallacy, are you familiar with the work Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg?

#233
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Superabound posted:

also seed-shopping at a sperm bank isnt "choosing who you want to have a child with", its choosing which genetic phenotypes you want expressed in a potential child youre going to have with a completely different person


and why is 'choosing which genetic phenotypes you want expressed in a potential child' any different from, like, the normal process of getting to know someone before making the decision to have children with them. eugenics isn't about exercising individual preferences really, else you might as well argue that all procreation is eugenics...

#234
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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caprimulgus posted:

and why is 'choosing which genetic phenotypes you want expressed in a potential child' any different from, like, the normal process of getting to know someone before making the decision to have children with them. eugenics isn't about exercising individual preferences really, else you might as well argue that all procreation is eugenics...



the rub! you found it!

#235
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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an individual wanting their progeny to be tall, strong, and healthy and taking sociosexual steps to ensure that outcome is simply "a mother wanting whats best for her children". but when a soceity as a whole wants the same? somehow theyre seen as soullessly mechanical Hitlerian monsters. because apparently the "Magic and Spontenatity of the very things which make us Human!" will up and die unless we all clap our hands and continually sacrifice millions of our children to the twin salivating maws of Nonrecombinant Chaos and Developmental Disorder
#236
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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"But what if one day a severely disabled Downs Syndrome sufferer would have ended up doing something really important for humanity, like learning a song on the piano, or playing a psychic kid in a made for tv Stephen King movie? what then??"
#237
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Superabound posted:

an individual wanting their progeny to be tall, strong, and healthy and taking sociosexual steps to ensure that outcome is simply "a mother wanting whats best for her children". but when a soceity as a whole wants the same? somehow theyre seen as soullessly mechanical Hitlerian monsters.


only one of these things lends itself to compulsory sterilisation and genocide...

#238
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Superabound posted:

"But what if one day a severely disabled Downs Syndrome sufferer would have ended up doing something really important for humanity, like learning a song on the piano, or playing a psychic kid in a made for tv Stephen King movie? what then??"


Individuals with down syndrome are being accepted into universities with assigned learning aids who do the actual work for them because the university doesn't want to be accused of discriminating against the intellectually diverse.

#239
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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caprimulgus posted:

only one of these things lends itself to compulsory sterilisation and genocide...



nothing "leads" anywhere. compulsory sterilization and genocide are objectively bad things, eugenics isnt. this entire argument flattens out to pretty essential issues of individualist vs. collectivist based society. youre basically just arguing against communism

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