#41
tardy on these heaters
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Those Palestinians were shot by Israeli terrorists yesterday. They are listed as terrorists shot by Israeli troops.



http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2011/12/you-dont-see-those-images-in-western.html

#42
penitent
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mondoweiss posted an article about how american jewry is benign and enlightened and liberal and has absolutely no connection whatsoever with those crazy israeli savages lol, he's a crypto-zionist
#43
tardy on these heaters
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deadken posted:
mondoweiss posted an article about how american jewry is benign and enlightened and liberal and has absolutely no connection whatsoever with those crazy israeli savages lol, he's a crypto-zionist



this is common knowledge

#44
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#45
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everybody cat planet!
#46
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#47
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germanjoey posted:
GOOD

#48
[account deactivated]
#49
tardy on these heaters
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#50
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dm posted:



he's right, but then again, so are americans

#51
tardy on these heaters
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crustpunk_trotsky posted:

dm posted:

he's right, but then again, so are americans



no he's not right at all

#52
Mike Nelson here.
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babyfinland posted:

wow israel is lucky to have so many diamond mines!

#53
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babyfinland posted:
no he's not right at all



yes he is, newt is just a postmodern anthropologist. he rightly sees that all group designations are social constructions. fortunately, he's not a hypocrite and will soon be calling for the rights of native americans to reclaim their land

#54
tardy on these heaters
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aerdil posted:

babyfinland posted:
no he's not right at all

yes he is, newt is just a postmodern anthropologist. he rightly sees that all group designations are social constructions. fortunately, he's not a hypocrite and will soon be calling for the rights of native americans to reclaim their land



he said "palestinians have always been included with the arabs" and thats not at all true except from the perspective of orientalists

#55
penitent
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all peoples are invented, a distinct palestinian identification didnt really exist until zionist settlement, that still doesnt excuse anything israel's done or delegitimise the palestinian struggle for self-determination
#56
Kurdt
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are nations more or less socially constructed than genders
#57
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#58
penitent
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gyrofry posted:
are nations more or less socially constructed than genders



more.

#59
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#60
penitent
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what have i said thats incorrect.
#61
penitent
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im agreeing with you i think
#62
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#63
penitent
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well yeah thats exactly my point!! palestinian identity is socially constructed but everything is socially constructed apart from Actual Physical Things like, for instance, a pebble, that doesnt make it any less valid, and among zionists and people like gingrich theres this weird idea that its alright to systematically dispossess people of their ancestral homes just because 'palestine' as a national concept doesnt have a long enough pedigree, as if unless you have twenty centuries of flags and crests behind you rather than just, you know, living somewhere your claim to the land isnt worthwhile
#64
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what you're describing there is something more specific than social constructionism. it's marshaling social constructionism as to undermine the validity of social struggle.
#65
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yeah the point of rightfully describing a designation as a social construction isn't to throw your hands up and say WELL ITS ALL FALSE ITS ALL A LIE SO WHO CARES but to simply assert that it is something that exists only in the abstract realm of human relations but has very real material effects due to the treatment caused in that realm. like the fact that race is a social construction but the false taxonomy invented because of it results in shit like redlining and more blacks in jail
#66
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reification is the vampire of reality, imo. Let's Get Real
#67
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aerdil posted:
yeah the point of rightfully describing a designation as a social construction isn't to throw your hands up and say WELL ITS ALL FALSE ITS ALL A LIE SO WHO CARES but to simply assert that it is something that exists only in the abstract realm of human relations but has very real material effects due to the treatment caused in that realm. like the fact that race is a social construction but the false taxonomy invented because of it results in shit like redlining and more blacks in jail


human relations are not abstract or immaterial in themselves. i thought you were a materialist?

#68
north pole
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I like how "socially constructed" is code for illegitimate
#69
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what I like how is the purportedly authentic counterpoint that the story of "fake Palestine" is cooked up in opposition to

"your nationality, forged at worst by a densely populated community sharing extraordinary experiences for several decades, is fake and illegitimate--unlike my twenty-five-hundred year old divine land grant"
#70
Kurdt
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christmas_cheer posted:
I like how "socially constructed" is code for illegitimate


its not

#71
Kurdt
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Lessons posted:
human relations are not abstract or immaterial in themselves. i thought you were a materialist?


do you think it's inconsistent to be a 'materialist' and also believe that immaterial entities such as 'nations' have material manifestations and consequences?

#72
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gyrofry posted:
do you think it's inconsistent to be a 'materialist' and also believe that immaterial entities such as 'nations' have material manifestations and consequences?


nations aren't immaterial, or at least not any more immaterial than, say, relations of production or class. in any case of course not, and anyone who says nations (or nationalist movements for that matter) don't have material manifestations is very confused. even a hardline historical materialist wouldn't disagree with that, (though they would quibble about proximate and ultimate causes).

Edited by Lessons ()

#73
Mike Nelson here.
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discipline posted:
the same people have been living in nablus for thousands of years

probably not, most humans die in under 100 years.

#74
[account deactivated]
#75
north pole
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If you conquer land from ppl who have lived there a thousand years, and then wait a thousand years, and then those original people want it back, who gets it?

Answer: whoever takes it and keeps it for another thousand years
#76
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#77
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j_sakai posted:
What we never should lose sight of is that these may be socially constructed differences--but they are real... So we even find some middle-class white men claiming that they've "given up being white" (I can hear my grandmother saying, "More white foolishness!" with a dismissing headshake). Needless to say, they haven't given up anything. Race as a form of class is very tangible, solid, material, as real as a tank division running over you... tank divisions, after all, are also socially constructed!

#78
[account deactivated]
#79
meet me in st louis
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maybe rotm will make aliyah now?
#80
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that is literally a nonsense thing to say if u understand what social construction is all about...