The growing protests rank among the largest and most resonant since the nation’s military dictatorship ended in 1985, with demonstrators numbering into the tens of thousands gathered here in São Paulo, Brazil’s largest city, and other large protests unfolding in cities like Rio de Janeiro, Salvador, Curitiba, Belém and Brasília, the capital, where marchers made their way to the roof of Congress.
Sharing a parallel with the antigovernment protests in Turkey, the demonstrations in Brazil intensified after a harsh police crackdown last week stunned many citizens. In images shared widely on social media, the police here were seen beating unarmed protesters with batons and dispersing crowds by firing rubber bullets and tear gas into their midst.
libelous_slander posted:
glodmein
this has been borne out really by the leaderships response:
http://g1.globo.com/politica/noticia/2013/06/dilma-defende-protestos-e-diz-que-governo-ouve-vozes-pela-mudanca.html
(google translate gives a decent impression)
where they seem to be taking it as "oh yes we should move to the left" or whatever, which is probably what they "want".
also lol
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324021104578553491848777544.html
Lessons posted:it pwns that late modern liberalism has more or less succeeded in realizing the dream of reducing all popular protest to non-partisan apolitical expressions of discontent that lack both immediate coherent power and the possibility of developing such
counterpoint: the TEA PARTY
the disintegration of "politics" from "the everyday" or "entertainment" or "life" or "my job" has, as you said, lead to impotent, frivolous, wheel-spinning protests. The subject-isolated education system and media no doubt, directed by the bourgeoisie, reinforce this disintegration within the worldviews of the working-class. Class conflict or acknowledgment is avoided altogether by the sly tactics of the ruling capitalists to keep the proles ignorant and noncohesive, disintegrating class formation before it had a chance to form.
Skylark posted:
the market has spoken
codywilson posted:"Nah bro, I'm protesting right now in this social movement thing with my friends. I'll check our that political stuff at NPR when I get home later tonight--hate when my worlds collide."
my freaking friends say this ALL the time!!!
Lessons posted:it pwns that late modern liberalism has more or less succeeded in realizing the dream of reducing all popular protest to non-partisan apolitical expressions of discontent that lack both immediate coherent power and the possibility of developing such
i disagree, in lots of ways
codywilson posted:it's a sort of success for the gate keeper's compartmentalization of thoughts/subjects. "politics" has become that boring thing where dems and repubs yell at each other and it's always dumb unsolved arguments. "I don't follow politics." "Nah bro, I'm protesting right now in this social movement thing with my friends. I'll check our that political stuff at NPR when I get home later tonight--hate when my worlds collide."
the disintegration of "politics" from "the everyday" or "entertainment" or "life" or "my job" has, as you said, lead to impotent, frivolous, wheel-spinning protests. The subject-isolated education system and media no doubt, directed by the bourgeoisie, reinforce this disintegration within the worldviews of the working-class. Class conflict or acknowledgment is avoided altogether by the sly tactics of the ruling capitalists to keep the proles ignorant and noncohesive, disintegrating class formation before it had a chance to form.
why on earth are you projecting your american suburban malaise on to brazil
Lessons posted:it pwns that late modern liberalism has more or less succeeded in realizing the dream of reducing all popular protest to non-partisan apolitical expressions of discontent that lack both immediate coherent power and the possibility of developing such
the MPL has a coherent leftist platform & decade long history & it's been successful re: bus fare / right to the city. like in literally all mass protests there's coopting by bored middle class liberals whining about 'corruption' etc and fash grouplets but what can you do, & they aren't the mass anyway
yesterday in são paulo was kind of a disaster though, very disorganized & violent
Edited by prohairesis ()
codywilson posted:it's a sort of success for the gate keeper's compartmentalization of thoughts/subjects. "politics" has become that boring thing where dems and repubs yell at each other and it's always dumb unsolved arguments. "I don't follow politics." "Nah bro, I'm protesting right now in this social movement thing with my friends. I'll check our that political stuff at NPR when I get home later tonight--hate when my worlds collide."
the disintegration of "politics" from "the everyday" or "entertainment" or "life" or "my job" has, as you said, lead to impotent, frivolous, wheel-spinning protests. The subject-isolated education system and media no doubt, directed by the bourgeoisie, reinforce this disintegration within the worldviews of the working-class. Class conflict or acknowledgment is avoided altogether by the sly tactics of the ruling capitalists to keep the proles ignorant and noncohesive, disintegrating class formation before it had a chance to form.
maybe the proles don't want 'class conciousness'
According to a Datafolha poll, 77% of the some 65,000 protesters who gathered to march in São Paulo Monday are college educated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street
A study released by City University of New York found that over a third of protestors had incomes over $100,000, 76 percent had bachelor's degrees, and 39 percent had graduate degrees.
zzzzz more pantomime and courtship-rituals from the lumpenbourgeoisie
prohairesis posted:Lessons posted:it pwns that late modern liberalism has more or less succeeded in realizing the dream of reducing all popular protest to non-partisan apolitical expressions of discontent that lack both immediate coherent power and the possibility of developing such
the MPL has a coherent leftist platform & decade long history & it's been successful re: bus fare / right to the city. like in literally all mass protests there's coopting by bored middle class liberals whining about 'corruption' etc and fash grouplets but what can you do, & they aren't the mass anyway
yesterday in são paulo was kind of a disaster though, very disorganized & violent
this is all well and good but i'm not sure how it answers what i'm saying. to what extent is the MPL acting in a leadership role here that will allow them to capitalize on their success and gain momentum? ANSWER was the lead organizer for the anti-war protests in 2002-03 that drew hundreds of thousands if not millions, but basically none of those people ended up joining the WWP/PSL or even continuing in the peace movement following the invasion. do you expect that these protests will lead not only to victory on immediate goals, but on the development and consolidation of parties, organizations and mass movements dedicated to more fundamental economic and political issues, and that these institutions will be successful at advancing popular power either in the government or in society more generally? i would love to be proved wrong but my impression so far is that the protests are loosely-organized and unlikely to produce lasting mass institutions with real political efficacy and that they represent more an outpouring of popular discontent than an organized campaign for societal change.
babyfinland posted:Thug lessons and goat posted basically the same thing but only one was being silly
it's not, i'm expressing exasperation at how ineffective popular movements have been at consolidating their gains, he and that other guy are saying "who gives a shit about bus fares"
Ironicwarcriminal posted:According to a Datafolha poll, 77% of the some 65,000 protesters who gathered to march in São Paulo Monday are college educated
i suspect this says more about the successes of Brathil's education system than it does the failure of their protests
swampman posted:the educated young bourgeois are the only ones who can have a protest on terms of nonviolence, because the state doesn't want to turn the hoses on the future elevated peons or the occasional rich kid. without their participation in the movement there is no space for popular expressions of discontent that can use "nonviolence" as a bargaining chip. mass demonstrations of the peasantry are inherently violent as far as the state is concerned. therefore demonstrations by the bourgeois are necessary when they align with the needs of the proletariat. just imo.
its just like inviting all the rich kids of respected community elders to your high school parties so that they can send the cops on their merry way when they show up to answer noise complaints
direct action gets the goods!
Ironicwarcriminal posted:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324021104578553491848777544.html
According to a Datafolha poll, 77% of the some 65,000 protesters who gathered to march in São Paulo Monday are college educated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street
A study released by City University of New York found that over a third of protestors had incomes over $100,000, 76 percent had bachelor's degrees, and 39 percent had graduate degrees.
zzzzz more pantomime and courtship-rituals from the lumpenbourgeoisie
i think the point is that they want to be bourgeois (because if you cant beat em join em) but cant because its too expensive