tpaine posted:how about i dominance train you, swampman?
the only thing dominant about you is that third copy of chromosome 21
daddyholes posted:swampman posted:what the association of pet dog trainers has to say about dominance training
The idea that dog behavior can be explained through the application of wolf behavior models is no more relevant than suggesting that chimpanzee behavior can be used to explain the intricacies of human behavior.
most people who use that training would probably get to that line and close the window b/c they consider the writer hopelessly naive
well maybe you're right but it is a policy statement of the apdt so hopefully he can suspend his disbelief for the one one millionth of one second it takes for Truth to fully illuminate the human heart 
second: do you think wasting mental energy on "dog philosophy/science/comprehension" is worth it?
tpaine posted:change swampman's username to julius cesar milan
i would prefer the dog whimperer
elemennop posted:looks like dominance theory doesn't work on dogs, but it seems to work on you. since that was complete beta behavior. loser.
nice try but i have already humped this guy many times to show that i am his alpha
tpaine posted:is that a book by some shitty author you like or what
yes. its a book by a shitty author, that i merely like, but you have three copies, one of which can be said to be dominating your life. i am owned....???
codywilson posted:swampman: for dog philosophy do you maintain that there are no bad dogs, only bad trainers?
second: do you think wasting mental energy on "dog philosophy/science/comprehension" is worth it?
i would say that dogs can have desirable behaviors, or undesirable behaviors. no dog is "bad," in that nothing it does it out of a desire to "be bad," or is meant to "dominate" humans.
i think that there is some truly amazing science being done into how a dog's mind functions and what "dog cognition" might be like, but for the average owner, i'd agree that time spent theorizing about their dog's internal state is more or less wasted. an owner should concern themselves with three activities: rewarding desired behaviors, not rewarding undesired behaviors, and making undesired behaviors impossible. the only thing needed for this is an understanding of what dogs find rewarding, and careful thought about how to apply those rewards to its behavior.
for example, a common undesirable behavior in dogs is jumping up. many people, when a dog jumps up on them, will push the dog away and say something to it. this acknowledgement is the perfect reward for jumping up, even if you're saying nasty things to the dog. so first of all, when a dog jumps up on me, i take a step back, turn my body away from the dog, stop looking at it, don't speak to it, and keep my hands away from it until it stops jumping up. this is enough to quickly teach most dogs that jumping up doesn't work on me. if a dog still has a problem, the simple solution is to make jumping up impossible, by having the dog do something that isn't physically compatible with jumping. if you teach a dog "sit," "shake," and "down," these commands all prevent jumping up (especially when the dog has to perform a combination of them to earn a treat).
Lessons posted:yeah lol, let's see you come over and try this nambly-pambly liberal dog training on my pit bull. maybe timeouts work for your pommeranian, but Sea Bass knows who's boss around my house.
a few weeks ago a dude was on the street yelling, actually like, hollering at his two pit bulls to sit down and not, i guess, suddenly kill me and the dog i was with? so i told him, all that yelling doesn't seem to be getting you anywhere, and he just turned the yell hose at me. "you dont know shit about dogs, this is the only thing keeping them from killing you AND your dog, what am i supposed to do let them be bad and not say anything?" i dont care about these fuckers though if they cant calm down then they deserve my grating interference
swampman posted:a few weeks ago a dude was on the street yelling, actually like, hollering at his two pit bulls to sit down and not, i guess, suddenly kill me and the dog i was with? so i told him, all that yelling doesn't seem to be getting you anywhere, and he just turned the yell hose at me. "you dont know shit about dogs, this is the only thing keeping them from killing you AND your dog, what am i supposed to do let them be bad and not say anything?" i dont care about these fuckers though if they cant calm down then they deserve my grating interference
yeah they yell at their pit and it still does the same shit again and again and they just yell at it more. i dont wanna say maybe you should actually train your dog well and it wont do dumb shit but it's not my place
EmanuelaOrlandi posted:my girlfriend has a pitbull mastiff mix and the way they raise it and treat it is really infuriating to me. i grew up with rottweilers and we treated them with love and respect and they were perfectly behaved. with this dog they yell at it and berate it when it does stuff wrong and for that reason it's a really annoying hyper Bad Pet they can't even take out on a walk without hassle
the saddest part is that everything you or i know about best practices for dog raising could probably be learned in 20 minutes of lazy wikipedia and google searches
is it ever too late to correct the malpractices? being hardwired since puppyhood to be allowed certain things seems like it's hard to correct. I guess this is where the calm patience comes in? my parents were right: dogs are a big responsibility.
also, how effective is yelling really loud at a dogs face? Is that a malpractice? nvm you answered this above
EmanuelaOrlandi posted:yeah they yell at their pit and it still does the same shit again and again and they just yell at it more. i dont wanna say maybe you should actually train your dog well and it wont do dumb shit but it's not my place
some people are responsive to the simple observation that every time their pet does something they don't like, they say its name. you can put it in very positive terms - "what could be more rewarding than attention from the most important person in his life?" these barriers people build against the idea that their methods are counterproductive... i guess on some level you're asking people to admit they somewhat mistreated their dog, but how could they not want relief from these problems above all else?
swampman posted:i guess on some level you're asking people to admit they somewhat mistreated their dog, but how could they not want relief from these problems above all else?
because they're new york mic white trash
codywilson posted:fascinating.
is it ever too late to correct the malpractices? being hardwired since puppyhood to be allowed certain things seems like it's hard to correct. I guess this is where the calm patience comes in? my parents were right: dogs are a big responsibility.
also, how effective is yelling really loud at a dogs face? Is that a malpractice? nvm you answered this above
i will start with an ominous tone and then get better. dogs can develop problems that will never be cured. for instance, just one violent attack from another dog can leave the injured animal aggressive or fearful of all dogs for its entire life. aversive training methods, when improperly applied (and they are not easy to apply correctly), can leave lasting behavioral tendencies that are difficult to untrain. the same is true of improper crate training - a dog who has been crated for excessively long times or as a punishment will probably have a hard time learning to enjoy being in a closed crate.
certain behaviors are acquired during puppyhood, and once a dog enters adulthood it will probably have a harder time learning them. for example, puppies learn to be careful with their teeth during play with other puppies. when one bites too hard, play stops while the bitten dog retreats to examine its wound. during interactions with humans, encouraging toothy play can cause a dog to be careless with its teeth around people. the consequences of poor socialization as a puppy can include not understanding that nipping, biting during play, or biting to fend off undesired interference are unacceptable behaviors.
the most permanent damage from aversive training techniques is the simple mistrust of people, as dad ghouls points out. physically dominating and intimidating a dog in any way demonstrates a simple truth to the dog: humans are a threat to its physical well being, even its favorite humans. all forms of physical dominance / intimidation have been shown to increase aggressive behavior, even in dogs that showed no aggressive behavior before the dominance training was applied.
but the good news is that reward-based training techniques are always ready to be implemented, and some unwanted behaviors that seem permanent may not be. there are proven solutions to nuisance barking, leash pulling, aggression over food and toward strangers, and so forth, that do not require punishment, and involve setting your dog up for success and teaching it that it can get what it wants by watching you and doing what you ask.
jools posted:Pet Corrector
whenever your dog barks you press the button and it says "I think you meant woof." gets under your dogs nerves so it avoids conversation with you.
last week he bought his own laptop and got a rhizzone account, im so proud
DeleuzerAndRetardi posted:Bablu posted:
owning a dog in a city is, i think, completely miserable
my dog eats better than me, never gets stressed, has more friends than me, and exercises at the park almost every day. I think being a human in the city sounds more miserable
he also makes better posts
cleanhands posted:i trained my dog by making like i was going to throw the stick, but then holding on at the last moment, until dog stopped running forward expecting to chase a stick. from there it was easy to incorporate noisily rustling the food bag at meal times then sitting back down, tying him to the car for walkies, etc
last week he bought his own laptop and got a rhizzone account, im so proud
is your dog mustang19?
deadken posted:my housemate has a dog. you say "kiss kiss" to him and he comes over + licks your face but he also comes over and licks your face if you do a lot of things or sometimes nothing at all
its you