grendelstein posted:
in all seriousness though it is the incestuous communities of ceaselessly negative, utterly broken people that exist on both the internet and irl, who increasingly draw out of society as a whole and reject all viewpoints that are not supportive of their particular delusion, that leads me to that conclusion. it is visible today in thousands of places; furries are a good example -they are statistically comparable in incidence to transsexuals. i will freely admit that it is based on no study, but rather years of daily observation

i think that may be more wddp than trans people in general. i got you some studies though, because i am a friendly and generous soul.

here's one that suggests that trans people are totally coco-bananas:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022399904005951

and here's a larger one suggesting that they aren't:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9015577

grendelstein posted:
i get it from the constant complaining of transsexuals that they are unemployed, half their family won't talk to them and that virtually everyone they interact with sees them as a weird, broken freak. is this social prejudice? yes. would they be happier if more people were accepting? partially - their various conflagrations of comorbid mental illnesses are at least partially neurochemical. but whether or not this is social or inherent means little; the effects still occur, and the evidence shows that while dealing in currently existing reality, the method of dealing with this mental illness does not in fact improve the life of its sufferer.

same but atheists

gruntstein posted:

DR posted:

gruntstein posted:
woo a 20% suicide attempt rate vs. an 18% attempt rate, certainly this was worth castrating the patient, destroying most of their family relationships and turning them into an unemployable social pariah. no regiment of therapy and pills could have had such a statistically invisible result, but the important thing is we not feel like bigots and just do the Proper thing which is to baselessly tell the mentally ill that happiness will come from destroying their sex organs and dropping ten thousand dollars to become a crude approximation of their prima facie absurd delusion.

the problem is that if you read the review most dissatisfaction likely due to the quality of surgery/complications, not that it had been performed at all. and the majority of studies don't show any significant rates of dissatisfaction, especially the modern ones, where surgical techniques have improved.

moreover, the one study featured in the review that has any sort of control (people operated on without delay vs people experiencing a significant wait for surgery) showed better functioning for the people who had surgery early (higher rate of employment, better sex life, more active social life). in fact, post-operative transsexuals showed better functioning in most studies.

additionally, another study from cambridge, of around 400 trans women, suggested that most post-operative detransitions (around 2%) were due to persistent nonacceptance from family and friends.

and one final point, some of the studies were conducted in an environment bereft of the rigorous psychological evaluation and real life experience requirements practiced today as a matter of course in many areas.

your uncited study that told you what you wanted to hear is very interesting but i prefer the comprehensive review of dozens of studies conducted by the biggest newspaper in britain

its actually like the 8th biggest lmao

jools posted:
Just some background for Y'all: Black Mirror is a three part series on tv that started tonight. The first episode had some princess being kidnapped and the only ransom demand was that the prime minister had to fuck a pig on live tv

damn Google.com here i come.

grendelstein posted:
i don't think i make everything about trans people, but generally speaking i care about the issue because i think it is grossly unethical to falsely promise the mentally ill and desperate happiness through the destruction of their social relationships, their capacity to hold regular employment, and their genitalia

they're not really being promised happiness though, they're being promised the potential alleviation of their symptoms, which seems to happen when the result is sufficiently good (high quality surgery and a younger age of transition very helpful for long term satisfaction as a result).

very few trans people go into this without being aware of the potential consequences, they aren't being mislead. the thing is that for the ones that do go ahead with it, it's an acceptable risk given the distress their body causes them.

and for many, it's a risk that pays off. they suffer socially, initially, but they make new connections, and generally have more successful social lives post-transition. most have better sexual functioning post-op than pre-op. for a considerable number, no one thinks of them as broken freaks, because no one can really tell, or they're ambiguous enough to make identification uncertain. can't really argue with the employment one (except for ftms, they don't really become less employable), but this is a social issue that can, and increasingly is, being legislated for.

the problem is the fact that gender reassignment takes a long time. many years. this period is often very stressful and difficult, and more acutely features the problems that you indicated. all the trans people on wddp bar one (who is perfectly happy) are at this stage.

grendelstein posted:
there are two important differences between a transsexual, an atheist, a person holding unpopular political opinions, and a homosexual. the first is that the latter can all hide when productive. the second is that the former suffers from a mental disorder even according to the most liberal interpretations of transsexuality.

also this isn't really true. the most liberal interpretations of transsexuality have the mental illness part as the distress caused by being trans, a sort of a reactive thing. these models provide an "out", since once a person has transitioned they no longer really count as having gender identity disorder.

DR posted:

grendelstein posted:
i don't think i make everything about trans people, but generally speaking i care about the issue because i think it is grossly unethical to falsely promise the mentally ill and desperate happiness through the destruction of their social relationships, their capacity to hold regular employment, and their genitalia

they're not really being promised happiness though, they're being promised the potential alleviation of their symptoms, which seems to happen when the result is sufficiently good (high quality surgery and a younger age of transition very helpful for long term satisfaction as a result).

very few trans people go into this without being aware of the potential consequences, they aren't being mislead. the thing is that for the ones that do go ahead with it, it's an acceptable risk given the distress their body causes them.

and for many, it's a risk that pays off. they suffer socially, initially, but they make new connections, and generally have more successful social lives post-transition. most have better sexual functioning post-op than pre-op. for a considerable number, no one thinks of them as broken freaks, because no one can really tell, or they're ambiguous enough to make identification uncertain. can't really argue with the employment one (except for ftms, they don't really become less employable), but this is a social issue that can, and increasingly is, being legislated for.

the problem is the fact that gender reassignment takes a long time. many years. this period is often very stressful and difficult, and more acutely features the problems that you indicated. all the trans people on wddp bar one (who is perfectly happy) are at this stage.

otoh, reality.

jools posted:
Theyre married lol

0wn3d

jools posted:
Just so you all know goatstein has mad internet skills because he is a private investigator for collections agencies in NEvada.

lol oh my god