Superabound posted:

daddyholes posted:

so what is the strategy when someone says, "sounds like you're talking about socialism"

i dont know, what do Capitalist Democrats say when that happens

they fall back

Superabound posted:

Depression Diary day 1246:

Almost mustered up the courage to go outside today. Opened front door and was immediately called a Socialist by passing UPS worker. Maybe tomorrow.

correct. this is what happens

daddyholes posted:

the idea that you can advance socialism by evading all bourgeois criticisms of socialism by never mentioning the word 'socialism' is about as delusional as you can get

its the right thing to do

getfiscal posted:

raptornomics posted:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Churchis probably the best example of communists pretending to not be communists in an effort to orient americans toward marxist thought and practices

as long as you understand that Rerum Novarum is apostasy and subsidiarity and solidarity as currently defined by the Holy See are incompatible with socialism and thus neither correct nor Christian, yes, the catholic Church is communist

swirlsofhistory posted:

Yeah, they're Sparts.

well let's be fair so far the bishops haven't actually endorsed legalizing sex with children

Agnus_Dei posted:

Yes he supported the negative income tax which is a form of basic income which so far as I know every credible economist supports as a superior alternative to existing welfare structures. Mainly they avoid the perverse incentives of "welfare traps".

He also identified the system of monetarism which was so obviously correct that every major central bank in the world now runs on its principles and inflation and deflation have completely come under control (there was around 13% inflation in the late 70s, now it is around 1%).

His explanation for the Great Depression was that the Fed failed to intervene in a liquidity crisis by creating lots of money and saving the failing banking infrastructure. Bernanke, who openly loves Friedman, is doing exactly what Friedman would have wanted him to, and it has worked brilliantly.

He was an active and influential advocate in ending the draft during the Vietnam War and he opposed the Iraq War.

People who consider him a radical anti-statist like the Austrians or whatever don't know anything about Milton Friedman. He just sought to effectively diagnose and improve systems and he did it all in a kind, insightful and clear-spoken manner.

daddyholes posted:

yes, it's almost as if fascism had a different relationship to capitalism than socialism does

the relationship our Dumb Ghey Ideas have to capitalism has little negative bearing on whether or not we need to or should trick people into believing them. Truth and sincerity are for talking to other socialists. Everything else is for turning people into those other socialists and making them capable of properly receiving the Truth. deprogramming is itself a form of indoctrination and propaganda

Superabound posted:

Capitalism has literally indoctrinated a wordfilter into peoples brains, making the TERMS of Marxism/Socialism into non-starters in the American public discourse

as i've already said i'm more optimistic about this given my personal encounters with liberal media hubs and the data about people's beliefs regarding capitalism

Superabound posted:

while the actual ideas, processes, and moral basis of Marxism/Socialism are overwhelmingly supported by even conservative Americans when stripped of their marginalized and easily identifiable terminology

i don't think this is or has ever been remotely true but nice troll

Superabound posted:

Marxism needs better PR and a good modern rebranding.

already occurring and being ironically complained about nonstop here at the El-Eff

the problem is both less and more daunting than you're making it. you can't sell socialism like microwaves; you can't even sell it like fascism; it can be "sold" but it can't be done through a mystical esoteric faith in the power of advertising, an improving but still less-than-rigorous field that is taken for granted within many industries as remarkably unreliable and difficult to quantify in terms of effectiveness

COINTELBRO posted:

daddyholes posted:

true Christianity, i.e. Catholic liberation theology

This has been pointed out before but liberation theology is deeply protestantized and no doubt most Catholics today have no communitarian values, just like most religious people worldwide - it's been explicitly excised, diluted from doctrine. Also lol @ you implying Islam has anticapitalist values or hasn't been co-opted.

daddyholes posted:

mixed signals coming from the Pope right now regarding his personal views on liberation theology, which is amazing and fantastic

The current Pope has notoriety in Argentina for violently opposing liberation theology and any politicization of Christianity. His cheesy feats recently are just as cynical media antics as Obama being cute or whatever, it's just that some hopeful Catholic-fetishist leftists don't want to see it as such.

State socialists scurrying, pleading and becoming parasitic to religion, degenerating into diluted Catholic apologetics would just further highlight the impotence of this fossilized ideology. Also obviously it would never happen as no religion (or fascists, or Islamists) would have anything to gain by associating with something as dead and fractured as leftism.

No need to mention how it would be even more laughably suicidal than aligning with fascists. Catholics, fascists, Islamists, whoever, didn't want to associate with the statist left even when it had some power, what makes you think they would adopt this project now that it's long-dead?

At most you have Islamists with huge popular support taking power today, but they're hardly socially progressive, internationalist, or have anti-imperialist nationalist projects amiable to leftism, basically no point in common with this deadened left.

I guess you can always have cool pictures of Naxalite armies to fall back on though.

Also no idea why people continue to mention labor theory stuff while talking state socialism and vanguardism, this is supposed to be a place for cynical leftists yet so much of your knowledge on Marxism is fractured and tied to weird romanticizing.

Don't mention the collapse of state socialism or the popular dissatisfaction and atrocities within it or face endless strident shrieks of sensitive wannabe "tankies" whose entire ideology revolves around whining about soft effete "identity politics" and pining for masculine right-wing validation for fear of being associated with those slut feminists/trannies/liberal leftists/faggots in scarves/etc who actually have something of a mass voice recently and aren't 25 sad people on tumblr and twitter worshiping 20th century ghosts.

Cheers.

COINTELBRO posted:

those slut feminists/trannies/liberal leftists/faggots in scarves/etc who actually have something of a mass voice recently

1 million farts in the wind, properly timed, can reverse the rotation of the earth.