#121
Kurdt
Post rating: ~
this thread is sincerely about reproduction of class / labor
#122
[account deactivated]
#123
[account deactivated]
#124
Post rating: ~
babies, reproducing and indoctrinating liittle commie kids is far more important than jobhaving.
#125
[account deactivated]
#126
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
Post rating: ~
i guess u could say it takes a Nanjie Village
#127
[account deactivated]
#128
Kurdt
Post rating: ~

roseweird posted:

ok, here.

gyrofry, i think the way you phrased your question is misleading, and reduces a complex issue to a binary choice made by women alone. how women respond to their situation as individuals and as a class matters, but i think the starting point for the discussion should instead be the structures and aims of bourgeois marriage and the nuclear family as institutions, to see what demands it makes of men and women and how it proposes to compensate them in return.

from a revolutionary point of view, it doesn't really make sense to me to ask this question of women as a class, or to present it as a dichotomy. you shut down discipline when she protested, on this technicality of the difference between "have" and "raise", but if you didn't mean to imply "raise" when you said "have" you wouldn't be asking this question, as women who decide to have children would not necessarily be raising them.

this is an important preconception to acknowledge because the structure of the bourgeois family reifies woman's position in the home and man's position as laborer, while capitalist and non-revolutionary interpretations of feminism ("you can have it all!") leave these values intact and encourages women to satisfy both of them instead of destroying them completely.

so what is your question, exactly? maybe it is, "are women more valuable as revolutionaries, or as incubators and nurses of men who will be revolutionaries?" is that it?

thats a different noun

#129
Post rating: ~
lol. no seriously tho what is the cool proposed post-nuclear-family theory for how society would be structured in communism. certainly the USSR didn't abolish it.
#130
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~

NoFreeWill posted:

lol. no seriously tho what is the cool proposed post-nuclear-family theory for how society would be structured in communism. certainly the USSR didn't abolish it.

some people just oppose things for the sake of opposing them

#131
Kurdt
Post rating: +
Heather Has Two Commissars
#132
Post rating: ~

NoFreeWill posted:

lol. no seriously tho what is the cool proposed post-nuclear-family theory for how society would be structured in communism. certainly the USSR didn't abolish it.



kibbutz

#133
Post rating: +

NoFreeWill posted:

lol. no seriously tho what is the cool proposed post-nuclear-family theory for how society would be structured in communism. certainly the USSR didn't abolish it.


*points you politely to most of human history*

#134
[account deactivated]
#135
Kurdt
Post rating: +
please dont troll
#136
Post rating: ~
doesn't industrial society require the nuclear family though? like how are you going to get nomadic villager polygamy or whatever (what do you mean by most of history anyways aren't these things very culturally varied?)
#137
[account deactivated]
#138
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +
the ideal parenting arrangement was explored by the film "mrs. doubtfire"
#139
Post rating: ~
i like random (greek) democracy so i also like random communal childrearing.
#140
[account deactivated]
#141
jiggago
Post rating: ~
just kill all the new babies immediately after birth, i dont fuckin care
#142
[account deactivated]
#143
Post rating: ~
I'm going to be a stay-at-home dad if someone ever tricks me into having kids.
#144
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +
i'm a stay-at-home bachelor.
#145
[account deactivated]
#146
Post rating: ~
capitalism has destroyed the traditional family so i don't really see where feminism comes into it
#147
Post rating: ~
my current gf keeps "joking" about babies and its obvious she does and i don't so its a difficult subject for me haha. maybe if i could have a kid and hand it off to a communal babyraising collective i would do it, and she could volunteer as part of a local collective. that would rule.
#148
[account deactivated]
#149
Post rating: -

roseweird posted:

NoFreeWill posted:

my current gf keeps "joking" about babies and its obvious she does and i don't so its a difficult subject for me haha. maybe if i could have a kid and hand it off to a communal babyraising collective i would do it, and she could volunteer as part of a local collective. that would rule.



yeah, that kind of arrangement would be great. (in that scenario you should probably volunteer too though?) it would be better if you didn't know which was yours, just that they were like, in there somewhere, but whatever. baby steps. sorry about the awkward situation with yr gf

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

capitalism has destroyed the traditional family so i don't really see where feminism comes into it



how do you define the traditional family? when did capitalism destroy it and how should we characterize what has replaced it?



- This isn't Debate and Discussion
- Over the past century
- Hegemonic Deracination

#150
Kurdt
Post rating: +

roseweird posted:

gyrofry has been setting off these threads with stereotyped provocative questions

#151
[account deactivated]
#152
Post rating: ~
it's pretty hard not to know which one is yours if they're in the pool. so it'd have to be babies shipped on boats or trucks.
#153
[account deactivated]
#154
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~

roseweird posted:

that's fine. i'm fine with shipping babies any old way. babies in trains, planes, boats, trucks, whatever, just move those babies

i admire your gusto

#155
[account deactivated]
#156
Online
Post rating: +

roseweird posted:

that's fine. i'm fine with shipping babies any old way. babies in trains, planes, boats, trucks, whatever, just move those babies

push the babies into cattle cars imho

#157
[account deactivated]
#158
Post rating: ~
you're gonna get them all together away from us? think they wont' get wise? you're gonna be screwed



#159
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
Post rating: ~
give all babues to stegosaurus, he can ship em, he shipped my pants
#160
Post rating: ~

SariBari posted:

you're gonna get them all together away from us? think they wont' get wise? you're gonna be screwed




best film ever made imo. demands multiple viewings