#1961
i agree. bring forthe the communisms.
#1962
do black people poop white? probably not, but i can't be sure.
#1963

SariBari posted:

getfiscal posted:

SariBari posted:

hmmm, yes, house niggers. that's precisely what she says.

"Prostitution has its very own plantation system. While the women in street prostitution work the fields, call girls, escorts and massage parlor workers are the house ni****s of this system."

that's not slutshaming, it's not blaming women for prostitution her conclusion is still focused on the safety of these women and how johns are responsible for violence. i know that n word got you all tingly and reactionary, donald.



"house niggers" has a pretty specific meaning though, implying a certain kind of collaboration and so on? i dont see why you need to defend this particular thing in order to defend all of her research

#1964

jools posted:

"house niggers" has a pretty specific meaning though, implying a certain kind of collaboration and so on?



hi, jools. i'm from the united states, the south specifically, and this is not how i view "house niggers" after lot of education regarding slavery once i escaped texas public schools. in regards to women in the house, those were often specifically chosen so the master could fuck them more easily for fun or make more slaves he didn't ever have to think about freeing since halfies were yours for life. general note: if you're someone who casts aspersions on any person deemed a "house nigger" during u.s. slavery please jump off a bridge today, bc it was an extremely awful, unprecedented version of slavery with very low chances of escape compared to the world over. byeeeeeeeee.

#1965
Sweet so can use this analogy in academia now?

"Micronesia and Palau are the house niggers of the Pacific Ocean'
#1966
halfies were yours for life, as opposed to all the other slaves, lol
#1967
why don't you actually look at the context of what malcolm x was saying instead of talking about what you learned once you left school? it's pretty obvious that usage is what's being referred to, you're just making stuff up to defend an indefensible statement.
#1968

Goethestein posted:

halfies were yours for life, as opposed to all the other slaves, lol



not that you care or know anything about any subject that matters besides what your own asshole looks like but children born as slaves in the u.s. were automatically property as opposed to other countries. there's your non-asshole centric knowledge for the day, goat

#1969
from the context i assumed that we were talking about the US and not ancient sparta so that doesn't really address my "lol"
#1970
" And if you came to the house negro and
said "Let's run away, Let's escape, Let's separate" the house negro would
look at you and say "Man, you crazy. What you mean separate? Where
is there a better house than this? Where can I wear better clothes than
this? Where can I eat better food than this?" There was that house
negro. In those days, he was called a house nigger. And that's what we
call him today, because we still got some house niggers runnin around
here. This modern house negro loves his master. He wants to live near
him. He'll pay three times as much as the house is worth just to live near
his master, and then brag about "I'm the only negro out here. I'm the
only one on my job. I'm the only one in this school." "You're nothing but
a house negro."

i don't think he's being very sympathetic here!
#1971

jools posted:

why don't you actually look at the context of what malcolm x was saying instead of talking about what you learned once you left school? it's pretty obvious that usage is what's being referred to, you're just making stuff up to defend an indefensible statement.



the indefensible melissa farley, truly the most unprofessional racist slutshamer. a marauder.

#1972
are you saying this statement is indefensible jools?

getfiscal posted:

"Prostitution has its very own plantation system. While the women in street prostitution work the fields, call girls, escorts and massage parlor workers are the house ni****s of this system."

#1973
most people in the drug trade are very poor people, usually minorities, who are wholly excluded from the normal job market and use the sale of drugs to survive. they are victims of an economic system which oppresses them, often related to their identity (black males, for example). the work is highly dangerous. drug users create demand for a service which offers marginal improvements in the life of low-level drug dealers while actually trapping them in a system of oppression. this is framed as a choice, and drug dealers have nowhere to turn when clients turn against them, and are often severely punished by the state. drug lords rule over this system and reap most of the benefits.

so we want to sympathize with frontline drug dealers, respect that they are trying to survive, try to make their work less dangerous, stop drug lords from controlling the trade, focus resources on fighting drug use itself. but can't we say, at the end of the day, that going into the drug trade isn't something we want people to do? like as a choice? if a person wants to be a dealer, selling drugs to addicts, shouldn't we say it's a bad thing, that it hurts more than helps? that if they have any way to get out of it, they should? that getting high off the people, contributing to the destruction of local communities, etc., is a bad thing?

if you were a revolutionary organization in a community, wouldn't you discourage drug use and sales?
#1974

SariBari posted:

jools posted:

why don't you actually look at the context of what malcolm x was saying instead of talking about what you learned once you left school? it's pretty obvious that usage is what's being referred to, you're just making stuff up to defend an indefensible statement.

the indefensible melissa farley, truly the most unprofessional racist slutshamer. a marauder.



well yeah actually also it is pretty racist just deciding to read these things from one social category to another, especially in the case of chattel slavery. i don't know what your problem is. i also just said that particular statement was indefensible, if you read my original post you would see i questioned why defending that statement was essential to defending farley's research in general.

#1975

jools posted:

i don't think he's being very sympathetic here!



wow, you really owned me with this malcolm x quotes about house niggers. i guess in the end, melissa farley doesn't care about the fate of high class hookers. she simply wants to show the world that their high falutin nobodies and who cares. oh wait a second, she is simply making a point about their environment and how they're viewed within and outside of the industry and is still desperately concerned about their safety from violent rapists. the plantation system was not designed with the help of the house niggers, jools. the more you know, my good man.

#1976

ilmdge posted:

are you saying this statement is indefensible jools?

getfiscal posted:

"Prostitution has its very own plantation system. While the women in street prostitution work the fields, call girls, escorts and massage parlor workers are the house ni****s of this system."



yes, because the "house/field negro" division is at the level of an entire social category, plus why is farley saying "nigger"? if the latter category is anything, it's a classic labour aristocracy

#1977
im only familiar with the house nigger as a concept from the malcolm x evoking it but i would have thought the true facts of the time were A Bit More Complicated Than That

it was a statement about class, not about slavery, and should be restricted to use in that context
#1978
edit: nevermind
#1979

SariBari posted:

jools posted:

i don't think he's being very sympathetic here!

wow, you really owned me with this malcolm x quotes about house niggers. i guess in the end, melissa farley doesn't care about the fate of high class hookers. she simply wants to show the world that their high falutin nobodies and who cares. oh wait a second, she is simply making a point about their environment and how they're viewed within and outside of the industry and is still desperately concerned about their safety from violent rapists. the plantation system was not designed with the help of the house niggers, jools. the more you know, my good man.



yeah i did, because it was saying something completely different to what you were saying.

#1980

ilmdge posted:

are you saying this statement is indefensible jools?

getfiscal posted:

"Prostitution has its very own plantation system. While the women in street prostitution work the fields, call girls, escorts and massage parlor workers are the house ni****s of this system."



jools wants you to concentrate on what he is saying and remember what HE WROTE and nevermind the intent of the parsing done here. i posted the original long quote about how questioning prostitution has nothing to do with slut shaming like all the porn addicted ninnies here like to rave about. in turn, we get reminded that farley used house nigger to describe how johns and the sex industry keep their street hookers and "escorts" separate. i so appreciate all this knowledge dropped, really making me question the research i read about in regards to prostitution. niggers, man. how could she!

#1981
well this conversation began with you saying she didn't even say that to start with, so idgi
#1982

getfiscal posted:

so we want to sympathize with frontline drug dealers, respect that they are trying to survive, try to make their work less dangerous, stop drug lords from controlling the trade, focus resources on fighting drug use itself. but can't we say, at the end of the day, that going into the drug trade isn't something we want people to do? like as a choice? if a person wants to be a dealer, selling drugs to addicts, shouldn't we say it's a bad thing, that it hurts more than helps? that if they have any way to get out of it, they should? that getting high off the people, contributing to the destruction of local communities, etc., is a bad thing?

if you were a revolutionary organization in a community, wouldn't you discourage drug use and sales?



i'm going to be polite here but this strikes me as just liberal paternalism.

re the bolded part: you really think they don't know that?

#1983

jools posted:

well this conversation began with you saying she didn't even say that to start with, so idgi



actually, that's not how it started, i mocked that escorts-are-shameful-house niggers was her precise conclusion and followed it up with her concentration on violent men.i never said she didn't use the phrase. it's cool how you want to revert to being literal now. let's talk about collaborating house niggers in south carolina.

#1984
no that's not what happened at all. you denied that she said they are "essentially the house niggers of the system" by saying sarcastically "hmmm, yes, house niggers. that's precisely what she says." and then quoting another part of the paper.

but it is precisely what she said? it wasn't her precise conclusion, of course, because that would be a stupid misrepresentation, like the one you're making, but it is precisely what she said.
#1985
you're making stuff up now
#1986
everybody needs to chillax a bit, there's no reason to be excited. prostitution has existed since before recorded history and it will exist after your bones are dust, why get upset about it any more than you are upset about the uninhabitability of space or any other unfortunate yet immutable fact of life?
#1987
and, again, you're mixing things up, because the "house negros" malcolm x was talking about are precisely collaborators.
#1988
d&d
#1989
Why I Made the Choice To Become A Prostitute
Copyright © 1996 Nikki Craft. All Rights Reserved

by

Nikki Craft and Melissa Farley

I became a prostitute because . . .

1. I saw Pretty Baby and it reminded me of my stepfather and I thought I could get paid for it.

2. I saw Pretty Woman and I liked the clothes.

3. I saw a Demi Moore movie and I thought, Wow, what an easy and fun way to make a million dollars.

4. I like getting fucked by the football team, the fraternity brothers, and law students at graduation parties. I realized that gang rape could be a transcendental experience.

5. I figured that laying on my back and getting fucked by hundreds of men, and getting on my knees and sucking thousands of dicks, was the most profound empowerment a woman could have.

6. My vocational counselor and I discussed a whole lot of possibilities: doctor, lawyer, women's-studies teacher, legal secretary. I was offered a four-year scholarship at Stanford, but frankly, prostitution seemed the most rewarding job option available.

7. I worship the goddess and she told me, "Fuck mankind." I misunderstood her spiritual message and found myself in lifetime sexual servitude instead.

8. I came to appreciate the depth of Hugh Hefner's, Larry Flynt's, and Bob Guccione's understanding of my sexuality.

9. My boyfriend wanted me to do it. He said that being part of a stable of whores who worked for him could help me learn how to get along with other women.

10. My father wanted me to do it.

11. I met a nice man on alt.sex.prostitution.

12. Camille Paglia told me it was the feminist thing to do.

13. I felt coerced by my landlord, the day-care center, the utility companies, the grocer, my dealer and my plastic surgeons to pay my bills every month.

14. I didn't want to work at Red Lobster.

15. I wanted to be treated like a lady.

16. I went to COYOTE's Halloween extravaganza, the Hookers' Ball, and found out just how glamorous prostitution could be.

17. It's complicated, but I thought that working in the sex industry would increase my self-esteem. It's sort of like saying to the world, "I am the best Grade A ground beef" and being the cow.

18. And then, ya know, even though it all sounded really good, and selling fucks and blow jobs sounded really empowering, I realized that talking about it and writing books defending it would be even more empowering.

#1990
was Malcolm x a house nigger when he was simply a spokesperson for Elijah Muhammad or when he broke with the nation and started organizing a broader coalition for social justice
#1991

MadMedico posted:

15. I wanted to be treated like a lady.



#1992

wasted posted:

was Malcolm x a house nigger when he was simply a spokesperson for Elijah Muhammad or when he broke with the nation and started organizing a broader coalition for social justice



read his autobiography and find out!!!

#1993

jools posted:

wasted posted:

was Malcolm x a house nigger when he was simply a spokesperson for Elijah Muhammad or when he broke with the nation and started organizing a broader coalition for social justice

read his autobiography and find out!!!


oi m8, this 'ere bio says we should try out nutmeg and broaden our class consciousness

#1994

SariBari posted:

jools wants you to concentrate on what he is saying and remember what HE WROTE and nevermind the intent of the parsing done here.



you're doing the exact same thing

#1995
jools, i'm not making stuff up. you are trying to posit things so it appears that melissa farley is the *one* who has deemed some prostitutes house niggers above others, you are holding her responsible for this construct and being obtuse instead of just accepting that was she is reporting on something that has existed long before her research. that phrase and her conclusion in what was posted is still not slutshaming.
#1996

gyrofry posted:

d&d

Since we're on the subject of D&D what do you think is the ultimate party?

I'm thinking send in Brienne/Sandor/Thoros to tank while Anguy/Arya/Theon ranges from behind. I like Thoros for his flaming sword, not quite as strong as Gregor but the guy keeps using berserker and in that state is uncontrollable. At an even safer distance you have summoners Melissandre/Dany babywhoring and/or dragonspamming. You've pretty much got this fight locked, I know people like to hate on Dany because she has no actual fighting ability but cmon dude DRAGONS. That's worth a party of tanks and rangers alone. Just give her a fucking dagger and sling but leave her on the sideline, if it really came down to her you're screwed anyway of course but who knows, she might kill a grumpkin or snark now and then. But whatever you do DONT LET HER GET DIRE CHARMED by bard rogue motherfuckers, fuck those guys

Wildcards
If you really want to mix things up with a wildcard you can bring in Bronn/Tyrion/Poderick as a rogue/thief/fighter combo but remember they are a package deal and you might not have 3 available slots. However with Bronn's backstab crit and Tyrion's ability to set wildfire traps as well as generate gold everyday, and Poderick's quarter staff and spear skills, this is not a combo to scoff at.

Ser Barristan Selmy: Obviously not at his peak but still a formidable fighter nonetheless, I would not tank him but I do admire his ability to double class as a rogue.

Jaquen Hagar: A rogue who basically has a once a day kill special and the ability to face change? Give him a fucking familiar and he's more OP than Drizzt Do'Urden.

Margery: Not a fighter as I'm sure you know, but her once a day dire charm and high charisma can get you some seriously cheap goods at shops. Recruit her before you buy/sell things.

Daario: Pretty decent sneak ability, a lot of new players hate this guy and prefer to attack him rather than recruit though.

Davos: Also good sneak ability, use him instead of the above if he gets on your nerves

Comedy Options

Sansa

Pubbies like to tank comedy option Drogo but neglect to remember his class is incapatable of wearing anything heavier than leather armor, either way he's susceptible to curse/disease and will die before you can get to a temple to buy healing services

Jamie? Yes perhaps he can lend a hand. I hate to say it but one of the one time greatest fighters in Westeros is now the one dragging the Brienne down with his package deal situation. Hence why I prefer the Sandor/Arya pairing because that gives you a pretty good balance

Littlefinger: Why the fuck would you pick Littlefinger? The only reason you would have LF in your party is so you can disarm him (and disrobe him) just before the sequence where he betrays you so you can kill his punk ass while the only thing he has to defend himself is his dick in his hands. (IMPORTANT: Do the same with Theon)

Robb Stark: A fighter who has a once a day wolf familiar ability? Yes please. A poor decision maker who's wife (admittedly good healer) and mother (even worse decision maker) take up a party slot? Check please.

Bran/Jojen/Meera/Osha/Hodor: Okay the clairvoyance abilities are nice to have I'll admit, and Meera/Osha can hold their own in a fight okay, but Hodor is...well Hodor and without a bastard sword in his hands this guy is a worse conversation partner than Minsc. And Goddamn a 5 person package? Jesus that's a party in itself. My suggestion is just recruit Bran/Jojen once in a blue moon to use their abilities and then send them back to the wall they'll be there when you need them.

Joffrey: All hatred towards the little shit aside, everyone makes a big stink about his crossbow. The guy has terrible Will and will fail every saving throw and run like a bitch EVERYTIME. Do not use him as a ranger

#1997

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

getfiscal posted:

so we want to sympathize with frontline drug dealers, respect that they are trying to survive, try to make their work less dangerous, stop drug lords from controlling the trade, focus resources on fighting drug use itself. but can't we say, at the end of the day, that going into the drug trade isn't something we want people to do? like as a choice? if a person wants to be a dealer, selling drugs to addicts, shouldn't we say it's a bad thing, that it hurts more than helps? that if they have any way to get out of it, they should? that getting high off the people, contributing to the destruction of local communities, etc., is a bad thing?

if you were a revolutionary organization in a community, wouldn't you discourage drug use and sales?

i'm going to be polite here but this strikes me as just liberal paternalism.

re the bolded part: you really think they don't know that?



Earnestpost: what sort of socialism or social justice doesn't qualify as paternalism then?

Cheers.

#1998
but your wilful misreading was designed to change the emphasis and consequence of this analogy beyond all recognition, because of how dangerously close to slutshaming it came (a possibility you introduced into the discussion yourself). and, yes, she is the one who deemed it so, because she wrote it. she saw reality and thought that an appropriate way to describe it. i question it because of the fact that this analogy was popularised by malcolm x, and that this is the sense in which it is meant universally today. x uses it in a very particular way - he is saying the "twentieth century uncle tom" is useless politically because "he doesn't identify himself with your plight whatsoever". i don't see why this is so hard to understand, but obviously you do?

and as we're talking about what she "really meant" according to a partial reading, would it have been different had she used "uncle tom" instead?
#1999
x gon give it to ya
#2000
i thought the house/field negro thing was kind of a more powerful form of the "front of the house"/"back of the house" dichotomy and if so it reflects escorts vs. street prostitution reasonably well... so if that's the case the question becomes just whether she's allowed to use those terms or something, dunno if it's still indefensible or not this way