wasted posted:it's when you hear voices and such not some sort of existential merit badge.
I actually agree with this
youre not special. thats how I receive them too... i tried to taste them, but it did not work
by overlapping and communicating information about these concept-maps we can actually create a sort of society of meaning, a language, a bunch of shitty internet memes, etc. certain groups have more shared meanings, subgroups can exist within a larger society that have more detailed or even entirely different maps of similar concept-areas, but have enough in common with that of others' to function entirely well within that other, large, shared concept-area, which we would call a culture. in schizophrenia one's concept-map is in large parts completely removed from that of everyone else's - one experiences the world in a way that does not agree or at times directly contradicts the wider consensus reality and meaning-space. you might experience things that no one else thinks are there, or get meanings from things that no one else does. the classic thing of course is "voices in my head lol" but there is an entire spectrum of schizotypal behaviour or thought, and the lighter forms are accepted (by e.g. the british dudes swampman mentioned) as an everyday part of functional personality.
disclaimer: i don't know anything about anything.
roseweird posted:yeah, see, like, after reading that, i know way less than before
here is my dumb self's version of it:
deleuze/guattari saw clinical schizophrenics as an example of people who broke freud's oedipus complex and could not be psychoanalyzed, who lived in a state of constant disruption of the connections between words and what they were presumed to mean and thus in a state of disruption of identity. they compared this to capitalism's role as a disupter of identity at many different points and concluded that capitalism produces schizophrenia but your average consumer needs "just enough" schizophrenia to constantly disrupt the self and then identify the self with the product. the clinical schizophrenic (isolated, hears voices, etc.) is a product of capitalism but not one that functions within capitalism and in fact disrupts capitalism. Capitalism produces a bunch of other products like the regulatory state that keep capitalism working through 'reterritorialization' of the disrupted identity so almost everyone (everyone but clinical schizophrenics) is "just schizophrenic enough".
people with way more knowledge of this are here to tell you what's wrong with this version, and it's possible i don't agree with it because i don't properly understand it.
brilliant book, everyone should read it. got me out of one of my own depressive miasmas
wasted posted:I think I'd fear immortality more than I'd fear death.
this is a cute fun thing that everyone says but it's bullshit
swampman posted:It's hardly "outside thought" to suggest that schizophrenia isn't a condition but another quality of the human mind, even the British psychitriasts assoc. has joined in making this the central criticism of the upcoming DSM-V. That all thought is "schizophrenic" in a manner of speaking but our minds are also equipped to deal with the existence of thought by having it explain itself, that is, patterns of thought are disordered when they conflict with or interrupt reality &/or occur without explanation/consent/locus/etc.
well let's not overreach here, the BPS isn't saying psychotic symptoms are just another valid psychological characteristic like temperament or mood; that's more something from like, Thomas Szasz or R. D. Liang. they're criticizing the APA for, in their view, lumping together a set of distinct behaviors and mental processes, (auditory and visual hallucinations, grossly disorganized behavior, and negative symptoms up to and including catatonia) within the neat tidy package of "schizophrenia" without much scientific backing behind it except for social convention and tradition. they're also critical of the diagnostic model generally, but not in the sense of legitimizing, say, hearing voices, but rather in saying that labeling someone who does hear voices as "schizophrenic" may not actually be that helpful especially considering the wide range of symptoms and the variability in their morbidity from client to client. that's something of an oversimplification but the point is they're still approaching this from a medical perspective, with the intent of both limiting the need for unnecessary and potentially harmful medical intervention and improving the quality of care for those who do need it.
but more directly to the things you're saying, i have to admit i'm really skeptical. i react the same way i do when people tell me we have to follow a paleolithic diet because it's what we evolved to eat, or when Foucault bases his theories on vague and probably apocryphal historical anecdotes. i find it extremely hard to believe there's actually conclusive evidence to support these claims. that said if you find it useful&meaningful&relevant i don't want to diminish that, i'm not trying to "dispel illusions" or whatever here, but it really doesn't fit into my framework for understanding the world.
Edited by Lessons ()
in guattari's case at least this wasn't true tho lol
roseweird posted:drwhat posted:this is a cute fun thing that everyone says but it's bullshit
it depends on whether you mean immortality as in anne rice vampire fantasy or as in belief in the eternal soul
immortality as in literally not dying. Becker's necessary neurotic immortal fantasy would include a belief in the eternal soul. etc. he would also include goofy shit like "I will live on in my art". or really pretty much anything that isn't "i will die and end and be nothing and there's no fucking way around it." i mean it's the old God Is Dead problem of course, just taken from a more psychological perspective by building on Otto Rank
drwhat posted:"just schizophrenic enough" is also a central theme to Ernest Becker's "Denial of Death" which argues death-fear is the root of basically all human behaviour and it is only by being coerced into a light narcissistic fantasy-world in which we are immortal that humans are able to function in modern society, but that we must constantly ride this line between neurotic break (in which you believe too much in your own power) and depressive miasma (in which you fully face that you are dying).
brilliant book, everyone should read it. got me out of one of my own depressive miasmas
I used to base my philosophy on that book until I realized that one of his premises (that religion is no longer believable today) is wrong. As is the case with many books, you only need to read the first chapter of this one; the rest kind of expound on tangents like how we don't like poop because it reminds us of the body and death.
You describe it as a philosophy of riding the line between pride and despair, which I agree is the general atheistic mindset, although I would say it is less riding the line and more a frenzied oscillation between extremes. Of course the faithful philosophy is different, it allows for neither pride or despair; when you do either you sin and need to reconcile yourself with God. Rather it encourages a calm middle-ground of humility and grace.
It is not because of your own power that you succeed. Believing in your own power guarantees an inevitable fall because you, like all men, are foolish. Faith in a legacy-based pseudo-immortality is similarly unsatisfactory since it (a) is not real immortality and (b) offers no consolation in the case of misfortune, and one must live in terror of such an outcome.
His is a philosophy of rejection of God and the subsequent obsessive alternation between despair and pride, and therefore it is the philosophy of Satan.
Agnus_Dei posted:poop
littlegreenpills posted:guys shut the hell up, schizophrenia is a biological abnormality of brain chemistry that makes people act weird. we can treat it with drugs and hopefully cure it in the future using more drugs. cheers
most people itt appear to agree with you
littlegreenpills posted:guys shut the hell up, schizophrenia is a biological abnormality of brain chemistry that makes people act weird. we can treat it with drugs and hopefully cure it in the future using more drugs. cheers
what are the schizophrenic biomarkers