#121
note that peak chomsky optimism is still like "we will probably all die in a nuclear holocaust caused by capital-stalinists"
#122
who was it that made that chomsky "menu du marxisme" post

like two years ago

lol
#123

deadken posted:

who was it that made that chomsky "menu du marxisme" post

like two years ago

lol

jools made the first 'menu du socialisme' post many moons ago

#124
noam chomsky

"Dialectics is one that I’ve never understood, actually—I’ve just never understood what the word means. Marx doesn’t use it, incidentally, it’s used by Engels. And if anybody can tell me what it is, I’ll be happy. I mean, I’ve read all kinds of things which talk about ‘dialectics’—I haven’t the foggiest idea what it is. It seems to mean something about complexity, or alternative positions, or change, or something. I don’t know…"
“I’m not saying that it doesn’t have any meaning-you observe people using the term and they look like they’re communicating. But it’s like when I watch people talking Turkish: something’s going on, but I’m not part of it."

marx talks about dialectics in the introduction to capital and on pages 100-103, 423, 425, 532, 533, 729 and 990 of the penguin classics edition (london: 1990) lol
#125
that's true. 'dialectics' doesn't mean anything useful. at best it means like "things are complicated and interdependent". whoop-di-doo.
#126
rosa lichtenstein has refuted dialectics.
#127
surely the refutation of dialectics itself has a place in the dialectic conception of the world
#128
actually i am a dialectical materialist. it simply doesn't exist, that's all. capice?
#129
D i a l e c t i c s
#130

getfiscal posted:

rosa lichtenstein has refuted dialectics.



indeed

http://www.anti-dialectics.co.uk/SW_Letter_001.htm

In this passage quoted by Marx, not one single Hegelian concept is to be found (no "contradictions", no change of "quantity into quality", no "negation of the negation", no "unity and identity of opposites", no "Totality"), and yet Marx calls this both the "dialectic method" and "my method". So, Marx's "method" has had Hegel completely excised --, except for the odd phrase or two with which he merely "coquetted", here and there. This is, of course, the version of HM I advocate in my Essays.
It is thus pleasing to see Marx and Rosa are in total agreement, at least here.
Naturally, DM-fans won't like this, but they should pick a fight with Marx for destroying their illusions, not me.
So, not so much turning Hegel 'on his head' as decapitating him...


also http://www.anti-dialectics.co.uk/page%2009_01.htm#Marx-And-DM--11

Q,E,D,

i hope this is enough to summon rosa again

#131


#132
corbalt emailed chomsky once and told him to try smoking weed because probably he'd like it, and chomsky wrote back all huffy
#133
it's ironic that chomsky rails against stalinist overlords when he's a public sector manager in the military-industrial complex who looks like a typical retired bureaucrat.... become what you are... help me plan a socialist utopia with MIT math grads chomsky
#134

getfiscal posted:

it's ironic that chomsky rails against stalinist overlords when he's a public sector manager in the military-industrial complex who looks like a typical retired bureaucrat.... become what you are... help me plan a socialist utopia with MIT math grads chomsky



He designed war machines for the pentagon for fucks sake: he’s about as much of a legitimate leftist hero as Saddam Hussein

#135
oh, so, umm, he's a legitimate leftist hero? i agree.
#136

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

getfiscal posted:

it's ironic that chomsky rails against stalinist overlords when he's a public sector manager in the military-industrial complex who looks like a typical retired bureaucrat.... become what you are... help me plan a socialist utopia with MIT math grads chomsky

He designed war machines for the pentagon for fucks sake: he’s about as much of a legitimate leftist hero as Saddam Hussein



Not a good analogy bro *thinks back on better times and asks u to do the same*

#137
dielectrics
#138
what's jodi dean's stance on dialectics? red fiesta's?
#139
dialectics is worthless gibberish
#140

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

getfiscal posted:

it's ironic that chomsky rails against stalinist overlords when he's a public sector manager in the military-industrial complex who looks like a typical retired bureaucrat.... become what you are... help me plan a socialist utopia with MIT math grads chomsky

He designed war machines for the pentagon for fucks sake: he’s about as much of a legitimate leftist hero as Saddam Hussein



lol yeah i remember south vietnam trembling under the might of our Linguistics Missiles

#141
goatstein remember that time you argued against the labour theory of value by posting a bunch of gibberish from baudrillard you hadn't actually read. good times.
#142

Goethestein posted:

dialectics is worthless gibberish


#143


wrap it up anti-imperialistailures, the syrian opposition is metal as fuck and has earned victory through their iron will
#144
[account deactivated]
#145
"(In a 1989 compilation of works on Yugoslavia) Žižek asserts that in fact the very radicalization of the Slovene model of pluralism and its spread to other republics would save the part of the Tito legacy that actually has 'world historical significance.' By this he means the legacy of having stood up to Stalin in the Cominform dispute of 1948 and then having renounced the leading role of the party in society."
(Cox, John K. Slovenia: Evolving Loyalties. New York: Routledge. 2005. p. 64.)
#146

jools posted:

goatstein remember that time you argued against the labour theory of value by posting a bunch of gibberish from baudrillard you hadn't actually read. good times.



baudrillard was absolutely correct, value doesn't derive from labor. sorry about your globally failed economic system

#147

clanzy posted:

wrap it up anti-imperialistailures, the syrian opposition is metal as fuck and has earned victory through their iron will



that guy didn't really eat the heart, he just put it to his lips and they cut filming. more pallywood trickery

#148
just whipped gangtags up for this thread + any assad fans



edit: cleaned it up a bit

Edited by Chthonic_Goat_666 ()

#149
gjoey needs to add gang tags.
#150

Goethestein posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
getfiscal posted:
it's ironic that chomsky rails against stalinist overlords when he's a public sector manager in the military-industrial complex who looks like a typical retired bureaucrat.... become what you are... help me plan a socialist utopia with MIT math grads chomsky
He designed war machines for the pentagon for fucks sake: he’s about as much of a legitimate leftist hero as Saddam Hussein


lol yeah i remember south vietnam trembling under the might of our Linguistics Missiles



i love how an 18 year old hick from impoverished arkansas thrown into a war is somehow evil and yet you handwave away the culpability of Chomsky

However, Chomsky has been paid millions by the Department of Defense over the past forty years, mainly through his work at the Pentagon funded MIT Research Laboratory of Electronics which even offered perks that other departments in the school did not. Chomsky’s first books, Syntactic Structures, and Aspects of the Theory of Syntax were written with grants from the U.S. Army, the Air Force, and the Office of Naval Research. He worked with his wife who is also a linguist on a DoD-funded project called “Baseball,”(11) and helped to develop “command and control” computer systems used to “support our forces in Vietnam” through making it easier for commanders’ queries to be translated into a language that computers could deal with.



http://www.newsofinterest.tv/politics/book_summaries/daisnaid/daisnaid_chomsky.php

#151
chomsky is a second-rate Macnamara without the honesty
#152

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

Goethestein posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
getfiscal posted:
it's ironic that chomsky rails against stalinist overlords when he's a public sector manager in the military-industrial complex who looks like a typical retired bureaucrat.... become what you are... help me plan a socialist utopia with MIT math grads chomsky
He designed war machines for the pentagon for fucks sake: he’s about as much of a legitimate leftist hero as Saddam Hussein


lol yeah i remember south vietnam trembling under the might of our Linguistics Missiles

i love how an 18 year old hick from impoverished arkansas thrown into a war is somehow evil and yet you handwave away the culpability of Chomsky

However, Chomsky has been paid millions by the Department of Defense over the past forty years, mainly through his work at the Pentagon funded MIT Research Laboratory of Electronics which even offered perks that other departments in the school did not. Chomsky’s first books, Syntactic Structures, and Aspects of the Theory of Syntax were written with grants from the U.S. Army, the Air Force, and the Office of Naval Research. He worked with his wife who is also a linguist on a DoD-funded project called “Baseball,”(11) and helped to develop “command and control” computer systems used to “support our forces in Vietnam” through making it easier for commanders’ queries to be translated into a language that computers could deal with.



http://www.newsofinterest.tv/politics/book_summaries/daisnaid/daisnaid_chomsky.php



this is lame even for you iwc

#153
great rebuttal

chomsky is a paid up member of the MIC
#154
thanks bro.
#155
goatstein's car only ever plays Nickleback or NPR's all things considered evidently
#156
more generally the man who pulls the trigger, swings the machete, or pulls the lever releasing the gas is always the most culpable because the whole system relies on him. people like to bitch about the people on the top but they lack the ability to do anything without these millions of swine ready to take life for money. leftists spend decades constructing these rambling narratives and schizophrenic hierarchies of power to avoid blaming the triggerman, because that is mean and because he is visible. he is visible in the way that say george bush or ken lay are not, but some leftists refuse to blame even them, making them victims of the system, robbing any human being anywhere of culpability for their actions, which is the real goal; because admitting that human beings from the bottom to the top are deranged sociopathic imbeciles is an unpleasant realization with poor repercussions for their attempts or even their motivations to create a better world

Edited by Goethestein ()

#157
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/syria-civilians-come-under-fire-rebels-183603899.html#uhAPSRz
#158
[account deactivated]
#159

roseweird posted:

iwc, i don't think chomsky is a hero or positions himself as a hero, but he is a person with a worthwhile perspective who says informative and deeply challenging things. also, i didn't know that about him, but in truth, i think someone who hashes out syntactic structures in the context of war is someone who is very well-equipped to analyze those structures. i'm not interested in his culpability (we are all extremely guilty!) but in his ideas.



yes I saw him give a speech when he accepted the sydney international piece prize a year or so ago, he does have worthwhile ideas.

he also built his profile and prosperity on the systematic slaughter of Asian peasants, I don't think these two points are mutually exclusive

#160

clanzy posted:

wrap it up anti-imperialistailures, the syrian opposition is metal as fuck and has earned victory through their iron will



That is Hella Badasss.