#81
Post rating: ~

SariBari posted:

elemennop posted:

were you thinking about this thread http://www.rhizzone.net/forum/topic/4506/?page=3 ?

please to explain to my small female brain?



that's the thread where the conversation about women only meetings was happening? i often have multiple tabs open and reply to shit at random, so i figured it happened to you..

#82
Post rating: -

elemennop posted:

SariBari posted:

elemennop posted:

were you thinking about this thread http://www.rhizzone.net/forum/topic/4506/?page=3 ?

please to explain to my small female brain?

that's the thread where the conversation about women only meetings was happening? i often have multiple tabs open and reply to shit at random, so i figured it happened to you..



uh no, i guess i see what you mean. but this thread too has some thingsthatmakeyougohmmmm crap like "So intersectionality is almost trivially true, but now that we've accepted it, how does it help us? "

but wow, thank for directing my posting potential. along with that recent super helpful hint about Australia i dunno how i'd get around here without you guyz!!!

#83
Kurdt
Post rating: ~
you seem kind of emotional right now
#84
Kurdt
Post rating: +
is this a hormone thing
#85
Post rating: +

gyrofry posted:

is this a hormone thing



yeah i've been dosing testosterone for 2 months so all my masculine traits can finally be properly appreciated by my intersectional friends in the queer studies department.

#86
Kurdt
Post rating: +
i was talking to elemennop
#87
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uh anyway, it seems kind of weird to call something 'true but trivial' when the claims are arguably that there are different vectors of capitalism's articulation of class and class reproduction. this needs a theoretical engagement and not just waving off the attendant political potentialities (like broadsides against orthodox marxism).

like, despite the silly excesses of subaltern studies, there is some productive scholarship in post-colonial thought that can be subsumed into marxism to help stave off theoretical, chauvinist errors.

also, i dont see this debate as being any different than women-only spaces or community-anchored spaces vis-a-vis POCs, seeing as 'intersectionality' is actually ambiguous enough to be taken as expression of class struggle via radical democracy
#88
Nippon
Post rating: +
Capitalism: The Highest Stage of Epic Shitlordery by Valarie Ikari-Chan Lenin
#89
Nippon
Post rating: ~
some1 define intersectionality 2 me.
#90
Nippon
Post rating: -
because it seems like it's: you know how the system of markets and the presence of the division of labor manifests today as capitalism, based around the process of capital accumulation and the exploitation of labor power coupled with financial concepts such as insurance and investment? well, i got beat up for being a queer in high school,
#91
Post rating: ~

Goethestein posted:

because it seems like it's: you know how the system of markets and the presence of the division of labor manifests today as capitalism, based around the process of capital accumulation and the exploitation of labor power coupled with financial concepts such as insurance and investment? well, i got beat up for being a queer in high school,



sounds like neoclassical garbage to me

#92
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intersect my balls
#93
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Crow posted:

uh anyway, it seems kind of weird to call something 'true but trivial' when the claims are arguably that there are different vectors of capitalism's articulation of class and class reproduction.


I don't see how this is more informative than before. How would a world without different vectors of class articulation look different from this one? What empirical facts have come to light that require revising historical materialism to incorporate intersectionality?

#94
hi
Post rating: ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESoXNCJlYq4&t=8m12s
#95
Kurdt
Post rating: ~

swirlsofhistory posted:

Crow posted:

uh anyway, it seems kind of weird to call something 'true but trivial' when the claims are arguably that there are different vectors of capitalism's articulation of class and class reproduction.

I don't see how this is more informative than before. How would a world without different vectors of class articulation look different from this one? What empirical facts have come to light that require revising historical materialism to incorporate intersectionality?


furries

#96
Post rating: +

swirlsofhistory posted:

Crow posted:

uh anyway, it seems kind of weird to call something 'true but trivial' when the claims are arguably that there are different vectors of capitalism's articulation of class and class reproduction.

I don't see how this is more informative than before. How would a world without different vectors of class articulation look different from this one? What empirical facts have come to light that require revising historical materialism to incorporate intersectionality?


it's difficult to engage with comments like this given the burden of the assumptions i have to dispute to do so. assumptions like "historical materialism has to be revised to incorporate different vectors of class formation" and "there's nothing informative about perspectives different from that of the white male universal subject" and last but not least "what could possibly change if we consider class from a perspective that incorporates race or gender". even the article in the OP and the one i posted later don't carry this burden so it's like you're ignoring all of the context in this discussion to say something like this.

but more to the point a world where class acted on history independent of 'complicating' forces would probably look like this

Edited by Lessons ()

#97
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
Post rating: ~

SovietFriends posted:

like literally multiple times in the past fortnight have i had to talk about it (though never really using the word "intersectionality" more just historical moments and different forms of oppression etc) to people at various levels from young comrades from different organisations about ladies to people i am attempt to destroy tv for about islam

#98
penitent
Post rating: +
fringus are laclau & mouffe worth reading (cue tpaine: "i prefer mouffe's work with spungly")
#99
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~

SariBari posted:

big ups to all the white men in here who spend so much time with black or female workers every month that they don't understand why they shouldn't be involved in women only or poc only meetings that could be going on right now at this very moment.

yeah you're making it sound real enticing.

#100
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~

deadken posted:

fringus are laclau & mouffe worth reading (cue tpaine: "i prefer mouffe's work with spungly")

i think they are worth reading but i think that their policy prescriptions are bad (liberalism).

#101
penitent
Post rating: +
the problem with intersectionality imo is past a point it becomes directly antagonistic to marxism. obviously communists have a historical duty to recognise oppression along all of its vectors and to be wary of the persistence of various chauvinisms within the radical movement but if you can't say 'workers of the world unite' without being called a class reductionist indifferent to bougie otaku suffering then Something's Gone Seriously Wrong
#102
penitent
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:

deadken posted:

fringus are laclau & mouffe worth reading (cue tpaine: "i prefer mouffe's work with spungly")

i think they are worth reading but i think that their policy prescriptions are bad (liberalism).



its good to be aware i guess but usually when i see them mentioned its in zizek lol

#103
Post rating: +
If you want to say that class is still More important than race or gender or whatever I probably agree but ultimate when you look at the real actual history of real actual socialist movements there was completely terrible race/gender discrimination culminating in the Laughable Romanian girl, Ceaușescu. So taking in2 account this Materiel Reality I have No choice but 2 consider an intersectional approach important .
#104
Post rating: +
it's probably best to maintain a level of theoretical tension between marxism and intersectional thought until some sort of sustainable and broadly agreed on praxis is reached. or maybe forever. it's not necessary for everyone's perspective to be perfectly aligned to work together effectively.
#105
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
in the book i'm referencing laclau is like "surely you don't think central planning is a good idea" and zizek is like "no no of course not". it's like a prosecutor's dream for the revolutionary tribunals where both will be executed (sorry papa bear).
#106
Post rating: ~
keven stop being so serious and invested all the time its getting pretty old
#107
Nippon
Post rating: ~
to be fair to vilerat, the xhosa girl was pretty laughable. imo
#108
Post rating: ~

”Lessons” posted:

assumptions like "historical materialism has to be revised to incorporate different vectors of class formation"


Is the incorrect assumption that HM doesn’t already include different vectors of class formation? Not very clear here.

”Lessons” posted:

and "there's nothing informative about perspectives different from that of the white male universal subject"



I don’t hold that view, but...

”Lessons” posted:

and last but not least "what could possibly change if we consider class from a perspective that incorporates race or gender"



...I don’t think any perspective can be informative about class since ‘class’ is not something that changes based on a point of view, or where there can be disagreement about what classes are depending on who or where a person is standing. It has a relatively fixed meaning, at least in the context of historical materialism. As I asked before, what are the new facts that necessitate ditching ‘class’ for ‘classracegender’?

#109
Kurdt
Post rating: +
If you use the right words in the right tone, tumblr will mobilize and bam communism
#110
Nippon
Post rating: +

gyrofry posted:

If you use the right words in the right tone, tumblr will mobilize and bam communism



i posted a thing on r/mensrights writing that we should rethink mensrightz as a marxist movement as part of a long troll to basically do just this but i had not properly estimated what percentage of posters were buttmad libertarians (100)

#111
Unapologetic Opponent of Rape
Post rating: ~

Goethestein posted:

gyrofry posted:

If you use the right words in the right tone, tumblr will mobilize and bam communism

i posted a thing on r/mensrights writing that we should rethink mensrightz as a marxist movement as part of a long troll to basically do just this but i had not properly estimated what percentage of posters were buttmad libertarians (100)

You fool, now I know your reddit account!

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1czes0/a_marxist_conception_of_mens_rights/

#112
Nippon
Post rating: ~
thats my troll account.
#113
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gyrofry posted:

If you use the right words in the right tone, tumblr will mobilize and bam communism


Talking about Zizek was banned in WDDP because they claimed he was a hateful bigot and that Marxofrat Lolbros were alienating women and minorities.

#114
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
Post rating: +

deadken posted:

the problem with intersectionality imo is past a point it becomes directly antagonistic to marxism. obviously communists have a historical duty to recognise oppression along all of its vectors and to be wary of the persistence of various chauvinisms within the radical movement but if you can't say 'workers of the world unite' without being called a class reductionist indifferent to bougie otaku suffering then Something's Gone Seriously Wrong



why do you think the CIA developed and disseminated Identity Politics throughout Leftist communities the same way they disseminated crack cocaine throughout Black communities?

#115
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
Post rating: +

Goethestein posted:

thats my troll account.



lol u have a non-troll reddit account

#116
Online
Post rating: +

Goethestein posted:

thats my troll account.


When I was shot multiple times point blank, God wasn't there. But these Navy Corpsmen were. It was THEM who saved me, not God. by Informationismydrugin atheism
failblorg -20 points 10 days ago
don't join the fucking military and these things won't happen to you
i agree that this proves that there is no god, because you deserved to die for your crimes knowing that you were dying for your crimes

#117
Post rating: ~








http://www.salon.com/2013/04/23/pictures_of_people_who_mock_me/
#118
Nippon
Post rating: +

Superabound posted:

Goethestein posted:

thats my troll account.

lol u have a non-troll reddit account



more accurately i have two reddit troll accounts: one for trolling tumblr ppl and one for trolling reddit reactionaries. the latter is closer to my actual opinions but a true professional can't let personal feelings get in the way

#119
Unapologetic Opponent of Rape
Post rating: ~
Goethestein, realtalk for a sec: are you actually a transphobe or is it part of your trolling?
#120
Online
Post rating: +

angelbutt_dollface posted:

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/23/pictures_of_people_who_mock_me/

Jools
THURSDAY, APR 25, 2013 07:05 AM EDT
"I stopped commenting on others' appearance at all"

While I agree that you shouldn't make fun of others' appearances, I believe that not commenting is also destructive. It is most likely that this woman's weight will indirectly be the indirect cause of her death. It is natural and evolutionary useful for us to be disgusted by such appearances, because otherwise we'd happily let ourselves and everyone around us die.

People with serious weight problems are either addicts or ill. So obviously you shouldn't make fun of this, but how could ignoring it have anything but deadly consequences. She says it's out of her control. Either that's not true and she needs to address it or it is true and the actions of others are what truly matter. Either way, someone needs to comment.
http://www.salon.com/user/jools