Goethestein posted:

it's probably not cultural that men are more violent as the norm, inasmuch as it is witnessed in every culture ever known

there are so many things wrong with this statement, unless you stepped from 1900 into the present (or more likely are a generic male goon) i dont think you know anything about anthropology at all.

babyhueypnewton posted:

Goethestein posted:

it's probably not cultural that men are more violent as the norm, inasmuch as it is witnessed in every culture ever known

there are so many things wrong with this statement, unless you stepped from 1900 into the present (or more likely are a generic male goon) i dont think you know anything about anthropology at all.

name a culture in recorded history where women are generally more regularly and more seriously violent than men. of course you cannot

Goethestein posted:

name a culture in recorded history where women are generally more regularly and more seriously violent than men.

USA, today, according to this pamphlet cyclone man gave me.

Superabound posted:

VoxNihili posted:

culturally-taught behaviors itt

oh i see, men "earn" the harsh sentences, victimization, and multiple rapes they experience at the hands of the American criminal justice system and private prison industry due to their "behaviors". i guess you could say....they were "asking for it"

whoa, yeah, as a big supporter of the american justice system, let me respond:

Goethestein posted:

babyhueypnewton posted:

Goethestein posted:

it's probably not cultural that men are more violent as the norm, inasmuch as it is witnessed in every culture ever known

there are so many things wrong with this statement, unless you stepped from 1900 into the present (or more likely are a generic male goon) i dont think you know anything about anthropology at all.

name a culture in recorded history where women are generally more regularly and more seriously violent than men. of course you cannot

i dont know what violent means. does it mean women were warriors equal to men? there are countless examples of native american cultures and tribes in the amazon where this is the case. do you mean the goddess of war or violent myth takes the form of a woman? there are hundreds of examples as well. or do you mean women were central political and religious figures who determined war and the violence of the state? once again, countless examples.

thats not even getting into your lack of nuance in the anthropological history of gender. once again, wtf are you talking about.

wasted posted:

Goethestein posted:

men naturally have more testosterone than women, and it is known through double-blind trials that testosterone causes aggression and violence. sorry about your pomo nonsense

So why are you against men signing up for war?

this is a major failing in leftist theory. they think that they can just deny the existence of natural instincts and behaviors and pretend that everything is cultural, because if it's cultural then it's not "unnatural" and presumably easier to change. the thing that they don't realize is that the fact that something is or is not natural has no bearing on morality. we can accept that men are more likely to be violent without tolerating the real-life expression of that behavior

Goethestein was probated until (April 25, 2013 13:47:43) for this post!

babyhueypnewton posted:

Goethestein posted:

babyhueypnewton posted:

Goethestein posted:

it's probably not cultural that men are more violent as the norm, inasmuch as it is witnessed in every culture ever known

there are so many things wrong with this statement, unless you stepped from 1900 into the present (or more likely are a generic male goon) i dont think you know anything about anthropology at all.

name a culture in recorded history where women are generally more regularly and more seriously violent than men. of course you cannot

i dont know what violent means. does it mean women were warriors equal to men? there are countless examples of native american cultures and tribes in the amazon where this is the case. do you mean the goddess of war or violent myth takes the form of a woman? there are hundreds of examples as well. or do you mean women were central political and religious figures who determined war and the violence of the state? once again, countless examples.

thats not even getting into your lack of nuance in the anthropological history of gender. once again, wtf are you talking about.

no there aren't lol

Goethestein posted:

men naturally have more testosterone than women, and it is known through double-blind trials that testosterone causes aggression and violence. sorry about your pomo nonsense

the roles of testosterone/estrogen/progesterone regarding sex-based behavior are not clear at all, studies on sex differences are full of problems. heres a cool extensive book on it http://www.mediafire.com/view/?bh4g18av03gn7ri

e: it's not so much aggression which is more or less conditioned regardless of sex, but men's physical constitution which gives that aggression a better vehicle

Edited by prohairesis (April 23, 2013 22:00:18)

babyhueypnewton posted:

But the entire point of 1st world feminism is to create reactionaries to confront. The only unity a place like WDDP can have is when there's a persecution complex to put real ideological issues in the background.

MRAs are sort of like Sarah Palin/Michelle Bachmann clowns for the Daily Show. Liberal feminism wouldn't exist without the Angry Atheist saying "rape is cool" just like Obama cannot exist without a boogeyman to point to. It's not just a matter of confronting MRAs because they are the most egregious targets or serve to unify feminist forces, I'm saying that MRAs are themselves a creation of liberal feminism.

MRAs use the same language and the same ideology turned on its head because they are both the limit of liberal feminism and the negation that gives it meaning.

"On approaching the other it has lost its own self, since it finds itself as another being; secondly, it has thereby sublated that other, for this primitive consciousness does not regard the other as essentially real but sees its own self in the other." -Hegel, Wikipedia quote cause I'm too lazy to flip through The Phenomenology of Spirit

How does the powerful pimp lobby play into this?

Superabound posted:

hmmm, the gender least willing to get their hands dirty also happens to be the one most consistently culturally and politically victimized and oppressed throughout all human history. oh well, im a lilly-white status quo liberal so its probably best not to think too much about that

ok, now i know youre trolling. mods? MODS!?

babyhueypnewton posted:

thats just patriarchy, there's very little thats novel about MRA in that regard. MRA is a unique phenomenon that was created by the feminist blog-o-sphere, twitter, and tumblr as result of the decay the feminist movements as it moved from action to thought. when there are no enemies, you create them even if it's just to gain clicks and not a grand conspiracy.

if every single man in the world was convinced feminism was correct and MRA was terrible, it wouldn't change a thing. the struggle against MRA is simply avoiding the real struggle against patriarchy which requires a revolutionary organization that imposes its ideology by force. and that struggle won't take place on facebook or tumblr

you're simply repeating what i said about MRA ideology and just finding a way to blame women who talk online about feminism for their own harassment...instead of the men who perpetrate this harassment. there is indeed nothing special about MRAs except they call themselves that. they are the same type of dangerous misogynist that women have had to keep tabs on for ages.

there is nothing diversionary about struggling against MRAs since you agreed they're part of the patriarchy in action but please, tell me how to be a better feminist. i guess i'll start by never communicating with other women from the first world who are online and have been targeted by MRAs. what's next, sir?

SariBari posted:

please, tell me how to be a better feminist. i guess i'll start by never communicating with other women from the first world who are online and have been targeted by MRAs. what's next, sir?

Edited by getfiscal (April 23, 2013 23:16:52)

SariBari posted:

babyhueypnewton posted:

thats just patriarchy, there's very little thats novel about MRA in that regard. MRA is a unique phenomenon that was created by the feminist blog-o-sphere, twitter, and tumblr as result of the decay the feminist movements as it moved from action to thought. when there are no enemies, you create them even if it's just to gain clicks and not a grand conspiracy.

if every single man in the world was convinced feminism was correct and MRA was terrible, it wouldn't change a thing. the struggle against MRA is simply avoiding the real struggle against patriarchy which requires a revolutionary organization that imposes its ideology by force. and that struggle won't take place on facebook or tumblr

you're simply repeating what i said about MRA ideology and just finding a way to blame women who talk online about feminism for their own harassment...instead of the men who perpetrate this harassment. there is indeed nothing special about MRAs except they call themselves that. they are the same type of dangerous misogynist that women have had to keep tabs on for ages.

there is nothing diversionary about struggling against MRAs since you agreed they're part of the patriarchy in action but please, tell me how to be a better feminist. i guess i'll start by never communicating with other women from the first world who are online and have been targeted by MRAs. what's next, sir?

I'm skeptical that the terrain of online activism or being harassed on facebook or playing video games are real sites of struggle. I don't think the internet is a neutral structure and I don't think the change in the culture of SA (for example) has mattered in advancing the cause of feminism at all. In fact I think MRA is a consequence of these efforts, as the sexist language of the internet has changed from overt sexism and racism to hijacking the language of social justice.

Look at the demonization of "radical feminism" because the nature of transgender mentally ill people makes them more likely to have online presence and use the same language as feminists. Or "feminist" prostitutes using feminist language to justify capitalist exploitation of the body. I'm not interested in "blame", just tactics and I think the form the struggle against MRA has taken (and all the things like it: the "geek girl" movement, non-sexist video games, etc) are unique from the larger feminist struggle against patriarchy which is useful and founded in real, human lives.

I'm skeptical that the terrain of online activism or being harassed on facebook or playing video games are real sites of struggle.

catchphrase