ilmdge posted:DildoMalone posted:ilmdge posted:well no one searches for "boobs" "hot" "sex" but in libya they search for "american anal sluts"
drwhat posted:
the (gay) part prob just means they have a separate network of gay sites from which queries search a gay index. for gay results. gay
lol at confused porn surfers on the gay network typing in "straight" "STRAIGHT"
ahahaha i almost choked when i read #3.
drwhat posted:everyday first world work
i guess you meant the united states? because plenty of 1st world workers enjoy true union membership, not being stolen from, and avoid an industry drug abuse rate of 95%.
DildoMalone posted:ilmdge posted:well no one searches for "boobs" "hot" "sex" but in libya they search for "american anal sluts"
drwhat posted:
the (gay) part prob just means they have a separate network of gay sites from which queries search a gay index. for gay results. gay
lol at confused porn surfers on the gay network typing in "straight" "STRAIGHT"
#10 is interesting because amateur porn is the one type of porn that could conceivably be ethical (voluntary, not coerced by the market) but then you get shit like stolen sex tapes or w/e which is seriously violating and just as bad as any other type of porn. any so-called "amateur" sex on the net, there's no way to know if it's been leaked by a bitter ex or if it's just stealth for-profit pornography or whatever. i have no idea which of those categories kim falls under. so amateur stuff is pretty much a no-go as well. sorry kimmy
ilmdge posted:hows the new romantic type of porn coming along these days
is this porn with a spandau ballet soundtrack
SariBari posted:i guess you meant the united states? because plenty of 1st world workers enjoy true union membership, not being stolen from, and avoid an industry drug abuse rate of 95%.
canada as well. we used to have unions i guess. we still have more than america. so far
but for example in the world of intellectual property, e.g. any creative white-collar job from engineering to art, everything you create during your employment is owned in perpetuity by your employer and you'll never see any royalties or rights to anything. this has been true for a while, my grandfather invented some stuff for the canadian national railway in the 50s or 60s and didn't get anything for it, etc
but he also didn't have to suck any dicks as far as i know. like i said i'm not trying to make the porn industry equivalent to everyotherjob, i'm just trying to point out that the things you chose to highlight are not all that unique. everyone is on drugs, barely anyone is unionized in north america, the part that is different is you have sex, surely that is enough of a difference
ilmdge posted:i dont know/. is fake amateur a genre? youre the porn expert. hows the new romantic type of porn coming along these days
no, fake amateur is not a genre
ilmdge posted:#10 is interesting because amateur porn is the one type of porn that could conceivably be ethical (voluntary, not coerced by the market)
i dont think it really matters if theres an economic interest involved
are you saying if i wanna make a jerkoff vid and post it on the internet that would be bad? i mean i agree such exhibitionism isn't really 'healthy' and that porn consumption is bad for the sexual health of real life relationships but is there a moral dilemma there?
ilmdge posted:go on...
are you saying if i wanna make a jerkoff vid and post it on the internet that would be bad? i mean i agree such exhibitionism isn't really 'healthy' and that porn consumption is bad for the sexual health of real life relationships but is there a moral dilemma there?
itt thread men compare vids of them masturbating with their penises to the time honored tradition of renting out women's holes on film.
drwhat: i see what you're saying. i disagree with your assertion about the extent of drug abuse and trauma among other first world workers though. i went about it the way i did in the first post bc of the reference to "ethical".
SariBari posted:ilmdge posted:go on...
are you saying if i wanna make a jerkoff vid and post it on the internet that would be bad? i mean i agree such exhibitionism isn't really 'healthy' and that porn consumption is bad for the sexual health of real life relationships but is there a moral dilemma there?itt thread men compare vids of them masturbating with their penises to the time honored tradition of renting out women's holes on film.
im actually intentionally talking about exhibitionism in the abstract here. i usd the jerkoff vid example for that very reason in reply to dildo's post about economic interests not mattering. i wanted to start from there - if that's okay, would the exact same thing, a woman at home who wants to masturbate and post a video, would that be more objectionable? remember im not talking about "renting out women's holes," i dont know why you say that. there's no "renting out" because we are talking about amateur porn and dildo's post that such porn would be bad even without financial coercion.
ilmdge posted:SariBari posted:ilmdge posted:go on...
are you saying if i wanna make a jerkoff vid and post it on the internet that would be bad? i mean i agree such exhibitionism isn't really 'healthy' and that porn consumption is bad for the sexual health of real life relationships but is there a moral dilemma there?itt thread men compare vids of them masturbating with their penises to the time honored tradition of renting out women's holes on film.
im actually intentionally talking about exhibitionism in the abstract here. i usd the jerkoff vid example for that very reason in reply to dildo's post about economic interests not mattering. i wanted to start from there - if that's okay, would the exact same thing, a woman at home who wants to masturbate and post a video, would that be more objectionable? remember im not talking about "renting out women's holes," i dont know why you say that. there's no "renting out" because we are talking about amateur porn and dildo's post that such porn would be bad even without financial coercion.
okay so you're uploading this amateur jerkoff porn right? you know that tons of escort and webcam services steal images and videos and post them as their own right?and they can do it simply bc all these special snowflakes think they are doing something private and special when really, they had to upload themselves and commodify themselves in order to be a sexy individual.
e: nm i think it's nailed because of "social media = human being as commodity"
SariBari posted:ilmdge posted:SariBari posted:ilmdge posted:go on...
are you saying if i wanna make a jerkoff vid and post it on the internet that would be bad? i mean i agree such exhibitionism isn't really 'healthy' and that porn consumption is bad for the sexual health of real life relationships but is there a moral dilemma there?itt thread men compare vids of them masturbating with their penises to the time honored tradition of renting out women's holes on film.
im actually intentionally talking about exhibitionism in the abstract here. i usd the jerkoff vid example for that very reason in reply to dildo's post about economic interests not mattering. i wanted to start from there - if that's okay, would the exact same thing, a woman at home who wants to masturbate and post a video, would that be more objectionable? remember im not talking about "renting out women's holes," i dont know why you say that. there's no "renting out" because we are talking about amateur porn and dildo's post that such porn would be bad even without financial coercion.
okay so you're uploading this amateur jerkoff porn right? you know that tons of escort and webcam services steal images and videos and post them as their own right?and they can do it simply bc all these special snowflakes think they are doing something private and special when really, they had to upload themselves and commodify themselves in order to be a sexy individual.
oh. yeah that's what i said in my first post, how we dont know the true origins, if it's stealth for-profit, if it's uploadeed by a bitter ex, etc, and that's why it's bad. so i think we agree?
but then you get shit like stolen sex tapes or w/e which is seriously violating and just as bad as any other type of porn. any so-called "amateur" sex on the net, there's no way to know if it's been leaked by a bitter ex or if it's just stealth for-profit pornography or whatever.
Edited by ilmdge ()
ilmdge posted:maybe you could say something like a woman exhibitionist is objectifying herslef which is bad for women at large. maybe omething like the exhibitionist women have already been warped and alienated by society? im weighing how amateur stuff could be harmful/bad/not okay and already decided imo it's not okay because the true origins of it are really unknowable. but i dont really get the reference "renting out womens holes" in a discussion about amateur porn. am i on the right track with that first bit? please elaborate
ahhh, totally missed your stealth thing, i apologize. only saw mongosteen mention stealth but though it was a typo. yes we do agree there.
renting out holes: because in actuality most amateur porn isn't people masturbating, it's people fucking women or getting oral sex from women. that's because the idea of fucking a woman's holes for all the world to see is a marketable/palatable concept that is time-honored among men who in general, dominate women physically, financially, and politically, etc. so the image of a man jacking off into the darkness is just not comparable because he is not a part of the typically oppressed sex class and its not nearly as much of an interest or profitable to society. think about why guys are quick to shoot off dick pics to women in texts/online. it's because hey, it's almighty and powerful dick. awesome, man! women on the other hand have all these body issues/fear issues. will he show all his friends, what if we break up, will he sell it, how should my vagina look? blahblahfrghshf gross sad stuff
ilmdge posted:go on...
are you saying if i wanna make a jerkoff vid and post it on the internet that would be bad? i mean i agree such exhibitionism isn't really 'healthy' and that porn consumption is bad for the sexual health of real life relationships but is there a moral dilemma there?
the economic interest isnt really relevant because exploitation occurs whether or not money changes hands. the end result is the same either way. the problem lies in who is watching it, why theyre watching it, and the conditions that lead people to get into it. these things are indicators that the problem isnt necessarily even with porn itself. porn as it is is a reflection of the misogynist culture that produced it, just the same as any media. even a jerkoff vid is problematic in the sense that its a product of the kind of culture that makes dudes take pictures of their dicks and send them to everyone they meet on the internet
littlegreenpills posted:is this rape culture in action, a psychosocial illness ... "social media = human being as commodity"
it's this core judgement that i have a problem with. there are a lot of people making porn in the 21st century (or at least i think so) and really, every single one of them has been duped by rape culture into deriving some satisfaction from commodifying their own bodies? everyone?
someone i'm very close to was once a stripper and now does some online cam work. in her opinion, A, it's much more safe and secure to do it online, B, while she has a lot of conflicting emotions about it, she really likes the piles of money and the constant validation of her physical attractiveness - while it doesn't really have anywhere near the same weight as someone she loves and knows validating her, it's still got some positive impacts. there is also the part where you feel pressure to value yourself only for your pure physical appearance and kind of want to pick yourself apart for every little flaw, and that part is shit, but in the end she feels it is a job that makes very good money and has a lot of downsides but slightly more upsides, at least for the moment.
so idk it seems really patronizing for me to pop up and go AHA but you are making yourself a commodity and have fallen prey to blah blah everything you think is wrong. like of course there are shitty sides to it but everything that pays money has shitty sides to it. she knows that, i know that, whatever. while money is needed in society, women are going to be doing this, somewhere, to get it from men who have too much of it
tpaine posted:paying for a membership =! closeness, dr. what
bbbbuut that's what it says on her profile!! im not crying shut up
drwhat posted:littlegreenpills posted:is this rape culture in action, a psychosocial illness ... "social media = human being as commodity"
it's this core judgement that i have a problem with.
someone i'm very close to was once a stripper and now does some online cam work. in her opinion
this was honestly so painful to read as a woman but it's important because it's a part of understanding how acceptable it is to whittle a woman down to her face and genitals because maybe someone out there is happy being exploited, just maybe (even though that we all know that the majority of sex work is not done in front of cam or from behind glass)
- the inherent and extreme insecurity of most sex work is recognized here
- her constant state of conflict and survival sex is acknowledged
- the damage to her mind and possible body is acknowledged
as long as it's understandable, acceptable, or the good ($$$) outweighs the bad (dehumanization of a human being) then there will be no incentive for men to ever make sure that women have better options than sex work on this gay earth you say yourself she was a former stripper. the sex workers that i have known, worked with, counter-recruited all have ascending scales of work. there is no safety in staying behind the cam. she will face constant attempts at coercion to do MORE give MORE , sell it all. when another economic crisis sets in... what will that mean for this woman who desensitizes herself maybe daily or weekly already for income? showing your tits, feigning affection, being fucked in the ass mouth or vagina, it is NOT like scrubbing toilets and for anyone who insists that it might be: how many dicks would you take in the mouth or ass to save up for Item/Vacation XYZ tomorrow? how many of your strangers or your friends or their friends would you fuck right now for it? how many hours a day?
drwhat posted:littlegreenpills posted:is this rape culture in action, a psychosocial illness ... "social media = human being as commodity"
it's this core judgement that i have a problem with. there are a lot of people making porn in the 21st century (or at least i think so) and really, every single one of them has been duped by rape culture into deriving some satisfaction from commodifying their own bodies? everyone?
someone i'm very close to was once a stripper and now does some online cam work. in her opinion, A, it's much more safe and secure to do it online, B, while she has a lot of conflicting emotions about it, she really likes the piles of money and the constant validation of her physical attractiveness - while it doesn't really have anywhere near the same weight as someone she loves and knows validating her, it's still got some positive impacts. there is also the part where you feel pressure to value yourself only for your pure physical appearance and kind of want to pick yourself apart for every little flaw, and that part is shit, but in the end she feels it is a job that makes very good money and has a lot of downsides but slightly more upsides, at least for the moment.
so idk it seems really patronizing for me to pop up and go AHA but you are making yourself a commodity and have fallen prey to blah blah everything you think is wrong. like of course there are shitty sides to it but everything that pays money has shitty sides to it. she knows that, i know that, whatever. while money is needed in society, women are going to be doing this, somewhere, to get it from men who have too much of it
why is this always put in terms of like, condemnation of the woman's situation as an ethical violation? each time, it is always the perpetrators that are made invisible: the men. the original article/interview that started this thread: you see the exact same thing: a total disavowal of men. like, it talks about how the enemy arent the prostitutes (no shit!), the enemy are the police (and what gender are the worst offenders?? the same gender that has 2-4 times the rates of domestic abuse versus the population?), as an amorphous ghost entity, and of course not the pimps (mostly men) or the johns. it even advances radical feminists as the enemy. good lord.
that's the whole point of the radical feminists position: it's an analysis of how women are reduced to mere sexual bodies by men and by the market. why ignore that? why focus on the moral dilemma of the prostitute's "decisions"? When will men get their day in the sun? Are we not Men? We are devo!
SariBari posted:
okay yes all of that but in the current moment, for a woman who exists right now irl, in the current social environment. if she can make more money in less time doing that than anything else, are we really supposed to harangue her until she stops and does some shitty full time minimum wage job?
this isn't a question of redrawing the socioeconomic framework to help women in the future. she exists now, and in her judgement it is, for now, an option that allows her some financial independence and therefore some control over her own life.
and i think it's a little insulting that you are basically saying that every woman who masturbates in front of a camera is just an economic slump away from taking cocks in every hole for cash. that isn't true.
2) Gort (misc)
3) Pooksie from league of legends striptease
4) indicating sex orientation in parentheses
5) the REAL ghost buster