Ironicwarcriminal posted:What I’m saying is that atheism has had many hundreds of years in which to assert itself as the true heir to humanity’ future. Yet here in 2013, in one of the most secular and intellectually rich nations of the world, they’re reduced to stealing millennia-old ideas from organizations they despise as being “backwards”.
it seems to me that what they're doing is explicitly acknowledging that religious organizations have positive community impact and they are attempting to organize in such a way that reuses traditions from churches without having to found them on god. the alternative would be what, trying to de-god existing religion from within?
it's too bad for them I suppose that in the process they are making you feel embarrassed. perhaps if you tell them about it they'll offer you a cookie
tpaine posted:religion is only central because it forced itself to be that way, i t's like a really strong mafia, or capitalism. iwc is basically making fun of people for begrudgingly paying off the fat guy with a baseball bat who visits their business every tuesday
but he also isn't advocating a return to religion, he's just saying "lol"
the basic structure of everyday church practice when removed from the slavish devotion to repaying unpayable debts of original sin etc is not inherently corrupt, reproducing it should not be frowned upon imo. it doesn't take much talking to people to notice the deeply held strong common craving for community and shared meaning, and this seems better than a lot of other options and it has the distinct advantages of being familiar and easy.
gyrofry posted:
It is not a cookie.
tpaine posted:i'd like to firebomb that secular church but you can't fault them for trying to get recruits via a simulacrum of real religion because it's all the average waste of skin cells knows about
these wastes of skin cells are all we have, this is it, humanity, rip
So they’re like “duurrr maybe we need some sort of thing that the community can centre itself around, we can call it a church” and it’s like yeah you’re only about 2000 years late and also massive hypocrites and also boring English people to boot.
tpaine posted:drwhat posted:
tpaine posted:
i'd like to firebomb that secular church but you can't fault them for trying to get recruits via a simulacrum of real religion because it's all the average waste of skin cells knows about
these wastes of skin cells are all we have, this is it, humanity, rip
well yeah, the whole idea that we even need to foster any kind of community is tainted garbage, look around you, do you want to make community with what you see?
I take your point here but what’s the alternative that this drive towards individual atomization is pushing us towards? Bronies, Tumblr and Adam Lanza, hooray.
Ironicwarcriminal posted:I don’t particularly like it but in the absence of meaningful revolutionary movements, organized religion is the most robust defence against the nihilizing effects of capitalism.
alright. accepting this for the sake of argument, it's plainly evident that in the western world the variety of organized religion that includes the wizard sky man is done. it's got no traction whatsoever. is it not better to recreate it in a palatable atheist form than to have nothing. even if it personally offends your sense of intellectual aesthetics or whatever
tpaine posted:drwhat posted:
Ironicwarcriminal posted:
I don’t particularly like it but in the absence of meaningful revolutionary movements, organized religion is the most robust defence against the nihilizing effects of capitalism.
alright. accepting this for the sake of argument, it's plainly evident that in the western world the variety of organized religion that includes the wizard sky man is done. it's got no traction whatsoever. is it not better to recreate it in a palatable atheist form than to have nothing. even if it personally offends your sense of intellectual aesthetics or whatever
NO FUTURE
Idon't even really disagree with you but maybe these sad little struggles people do to have something in their lives should be encouraged...
gyrofry posted:im sorry joel, no offense intended
None taken at all, I was trying to joke that nothing about that image bothers me except them slandering it as a cookie. They are 100% correct that the sacred host is viewed as literally Christ himself, and desecrating it results in automatic excommunication; but a cookie is sweetened! Admittedly though, it is pretty disingenuous to suggest that the next Inquisition is right around the corner or that Vatican II did absolutely nothing in terms of ecumenism with non-Catholics, just because we refuse to give up the Real Presence, a tradition since time immemorial.
it's cool posting through a time warp with early 90s billy corgan
the world truly is a vampire
drwhat posted:Ironicwarcriminal posted:
I don’t particularly like it but in the absence of meaningful revolutionary movements, organized religion is the most robust defence against the nihilizing effects of capitalism.
alright. accepting this for the sake of argument, it's plainly evident that in the western world the variety of organized religion that includes the wizard sky man is done. it's got no traction whatsoever. is it not better to recreate it in a palatable atheist form than to have nothing. even if it personally offends your sense of intellectual aesthetics or whatever
The tudors are long gone but that doesn’t mean that mock-tudor architecture is the way of the future
tpaine posted:drwhat posted:
lol
it's cool posting through a time warp with early 90s billy corgan
the world truly is a vampire
i feel like if i was successful i would be a humorously self-ruining character like billy crogan
I was gonna say that in terms of famous self-sabotagers you’d be a cross between kurt cobain and Michael Richards but that’s basically billy corgan anyways
