#41
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:

AmericanNazbro posted:

who thinks contemporary china is socialist lol

PSL, FRSO, CPUSA all think contemporary china is worth defending as socialist.



good troll

#42
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:

Crow posted:

well as far as i know you believe the following things:

1) Girl avatars

2) you and your aim superfriends always posting anime and quoting each other

would you join a group, like the ISO, that doesn't consider the fall of the soviet union to have been a particularly bad thing for socialism



well that would be pretty clueless, wouldnt it? like just the objective facts of civil war, ethnic cleansing, chauvinist mafiaso states, and rampant human trafficking. i'd probably joke through two meetings and fuck along then

#43
Post rating: ~
yes here lol

Ideologically, much appears to be up for grabs, for example regarding China. In a 2002 article in People's Weekly World, CPUSA correspondents Marilyn Bechtel and Debbie Bell said of their trip to the People's Republic of China: "e came away with a new respect for the thoughtfulness, thoroughness, energy and optimism with which the Communist Party of China and the Chinese people are going about the complex, long-term process of building socialism in a vast developing country, which is of necessity part of an increasingly globalized economy."
#44
sing hallelujah
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khamsek heres a q: why do you still find hope in leftist organizations in amerikkka
#45
Post rating: +
what did they do at the meeting? did they discuss what is essentially some wikipedia article and then close it out with a talking point about Capitalism being bad with tepid agreement and nodding
#46
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discipline posted:

ilmdge posted:

lol in fucking new york city there's still only 30 ppl going to the trot meetings? wow.

it was really sad. I mean I was truly saddened. there was this one dude there on his third meeting who kept asking, hey, hey, what is it you people do?



i earnestly want to know the answer to that question as well. homeless shelters are more revolutionary organizations than trot groups

#47
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~

babyhueypnewton posted:

good troll

which group don't you think supports china? FRSO? yeah it might sound weird because they are post-maoist but read this

http://frso.org/about/statements/2009/looking-back-at-tiananmen-square.htm

#48
[account deactivated]
#49
sing hallelujah
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please dont ignore me khamsek
#50
Online
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See if you have more luck at one of these places

St Joseph House
36 E First St
New York NY 10003
Phone: 212-254-1640

Maryhouse
55 E Third St
New York NY 10003
Phone: 212-777-9617

Volunteer opportunities in Catholic Worker houses are rarely advertised. Occasionally you may find ads in the New York Catholic Worker newspaper or in Sojourners magazine. We advise interested persons to contact the Catholic Worker house they are interested in directly.

http://www.catholicworker.org/communities/. In addition, the New York Catholic Worker newspaper publishes a list of houses in their May edition. See previous question for where to write.
#51
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:

babyhueypnewton posted:

good troll

which group don't you think supports china? FRSO? yeah it might sound weird because they are post-maoist but read this

http://frso.org/about/statements/2009/looking-back-at-tiananmen-square.htm

actually http://content.csbs.utah.edu/~mli/CV/Interview%20with%20Minqi%20Li_Greece%20111309_.pdf

#52
Post rating: ~
I've said this before but that dude taught me macro out of a mankiw textbook. this place PWNS
#53
Post rating: +

getfiscal posted:

babyhueypnewton posted:

good troll

which group don't you think supports china? FRSO? yeah it might sound weird because they are post-maoist but read this

http://frso.org/about/statements/2009/looking-back-at-tiananmen-square.htm



theres a difference between defending china from imperialism, believing it is more progressive than Amerikkka, and sometimes even believing that there is still potential for the restoration of socialism within the party and believing china is a socialist country. All of those are separate views, none of which are equivelent in any way with "china is socialist". only a trot would equate defense with unequivocal support because they are devoted to an ideal.

as for the article, I don't think it's possible to be a marxist-leninist and think kurschev was socialist, but I also don't think it's possible to be M-L and support the hungarian revolution. it is quite possible to oppose both Deng and the Tienanmen square protestors. you're using word play and underhanded tactics to confuse.

e: skimming the article, it's not great. im surprised the frso is opposed to the cultural revolution, but this was posted in 1989 and it's obvious there's a lot of politics involved here.

Edited by babyhueypnewton ()

#54
Post rating: +

discipline posted:

AmericanNazbro posted:

what did they do at the meeting? did they discuss what is essentially some wikipedia article and then close it out with a talking point about Capitalism being bad with tepid agreement and nodding

if only



did you mic check the speaker and interrupt them, ala kanye west, "excuse me, imma let you finish but Stalin had the best Socialist country of all time"

#55
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that guys cool and chinese left socialism is ftw
#56
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~

babyhueypnewton posted:

as for the article, I don't think it's possible to be a marxist-leninist and think kurschev was socialist, but I also don't think it's possible to be M-L and support the hungarian revolution. it is quite possible to oppose both Deng and the Tienanmen sqaure protestors. you're using word play and underhanded tactics to confuse.

i know an FRSO activist who writes for them and he says his and their line is that china is still a socialist country because the proletariat is in charge. hence all the articles where they defend chinese socialism. please don't troll me.

#57
Poronto
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the ISO are a bunch of paper fascists imposing universal Amerikkan envelope and print feed dimensions on the oppressed
#58
Dont Mess With Sucess
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babyhueypnewton posted:

rhizzone meetup part 2, and now that im a mod so everyone who doesnt go is banned. oh also ill be in new york in april if the bored CIA guy reading this wants to find me

That 'D B Me

#59
Dont Mess With Sucess
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What happened at the meeting
#60
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Who made the website.
#61
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Did you get a job hookup at the meeting or was it just a day of rage/shame?
#62
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Err... Uhm, hello. My name is Phil, I'm here for the revolution. I brought juiceboxes.
#63
Post rating: ~
But did you get ISO 9001 certified?

Edited by Zen_Punk ()

#64
[account deactivated]
#65
[account deactivated]
#66
Post rating: +

discipline posted:

there were about 30 people there, but only about 15 got asked to the bar



after the show you get to meet the party
and after the party it's the bar-room hobby
around about 12 you gotta leave your buddies
take it to your room and read some Trotsky

it's a delicious icepickin'
running all 'round the kitchen
Leon pleading and crying,
while he's bleeding and dying
Sippin' on Banukin, i'm like so what i'm dumb
its the freakin' conditions baby, gotta wait for our time in the sun

De-nounce, nounce, nounce, nounce, nounce, nounce, nounce,

#67
[account deactivated]
#68
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
i guess you just have to clarify exactly what your goals are in getting involved in an organization. like you've got to be humble enough to position yourself within the world, which means understanding that the risks of direct action are often high with not much obvious reward. there's something to be said for the visceral feeling of direct participation against unfair conditions, but at the same time it's unlikely that you'll overturn the social system just through your own actions. no one expects you to do that, so don't be too hard on yourself, too. i would be wary of groups that offer you a short-term high by talking up violence, like maoists, because just because they have a radical attitude doesn't mean much about their sustainability or viability. any successful movement against capitalism in the US is going to sweep in tens of millions of people from various sectors.

i think that's part of why it's a true dilemma. you have enormous passion but there aren't many avenues that offer near-term transformative results. if anyone promises you transformative results they are probably lying. i think if you focus on education and teaching, even over the next year or so, you might be better positioned for those moments of rupture like occupy when everyone wants to hear what you have to say and there are more opportunities for participation.
#69
YUNG JIRO AKA SHOWA STUNNA AKA
Post rating: +
Was it chill
#70
Poronto
Post rating: ~
the revolution is a long, long way off and the most you can do to help it is through piecemeal acts of education that may not pay off in your lifetime; but how can we accept this and still retain our motivation?
#71
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +

littlegreenpills posted:

the revolution is a long, long way off and the most you can do to help it is through piecemeal acts of education that may not pay off in your lifetime; but how can we accept this and still retain our motivation?

reflecting on christ's love.

#72
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What's an ISO meeting.
#73
Post rating: ~
i mean i can read lenin at home, i can decide whether i think china is socialist at home. ive decided those types of things arent for me

Edited by animedad ()

#74
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~

Meursault posted:

What's an ISO meeting.

the International Socialist Organization, which is a Trotskyist organization centered on the ideas of Tony Cliff. They believe that the USSR and other "Stalinist" states (Cuba, China, etc.) were state-capitalist and not socialist. They generally support worker's councils as the bedrock of socialist revolution, and are usually skeptical about electoralism. They are probably the largest far-left organization in the US. They operate Haymarket Books.

#75
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
i went to a bunch of cliffite meetings before, like their conferences and reading groups and shit. they tend to either just oppose things blindly (calling for revolution against the cuban government) or support things blindly (they supported morsi in egypt) which doesn't make much sense to me but whatever.
#76
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why did you go?
#77
Post rating: +
I quit the PSL today
#78
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Double ppst
#79
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~

prikryl posted:

I quit the PSL today

dish!

#80
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prikryl posted:



why come?