#241
A telegraph article to add!
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100198042/the-suzanne-moore-julie-burchill-uproar-shows-how-utterly-bonkers-parts-of-the-radical-left-are-at-the-moment/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

The Suzanne Moore-Julie Burchill uproar shows how utterly bonkers parts of the radical Left are at the moment
Last night I went to see Les Misérables, and nearly disgraced myself. As the ensemble broke into their first stirring rendition of “Do You Hear The People Sing” – and all around me wept proud tears of solidarity – I almost burst out laughing.

It wasn’t that I was belittling Hugh Jackman and Eddie Redmayne’s revolutionary ardour, though Russell Crowe’s Javert did strike me as just the sort of man who knows how to take tough choices in an age of austerity. Instead I was reminded of the time I was working for the GMB union, and we decided to use “The People’s Song” to open our annual congress.
Every year we’d begin with Jerusalem, and for once we thought we’d let our hair down a bit. So we played it, the delegates loved it and John Edmonds made for a pretty striking Jean Valjean. But the following year one of our branches tabled an official motion condemning the officers of the union for playing a song they said was being used to fill the coffers of Sir Cameron Mackintosh, the producer of the smash hit West End show, and a donor to the Tory party.

Just like those manning the Parisian barricades in 1832, we stood accused of treachery. As I suppose, by extension, did Victor Hugo and Claude-Michel Schönberg.
The Left detests a traitor. Or rather, there’s nothing the Left loves more than embarking on a witch-hunt for a traitor. Which is why Suzanne Moore found herself strapped firmly into the progressive ducking stool last week, after writing an article for the New Statesman that contained the line “We are angry with ourselves for not being happier, not being loved properly and not having the ideal body shape – that of a Brazilian transsexual”. This single sentence, in a piece that otherwise sought to take a chainsaw to sexism and gender prejudice, saw Moore facing demands to apologise for what Pink News called her “recent transphobic outburst”.

No sooner had Moore been officially found to be in league with the devil than it was Julie Burchill’s turn. Burchill had defended her friend in a typically understated Observer piece, including a hot contender for most un-PC line of all time: “a gaggle of transsexuals telling Suzanne Moore how to write looks a lot like how I'd imagine the Black and White Minstrels telling Usain Bolt how to run would look”. This resulted in Lib Dem minister Lynne Featherstone demanding Burchill’s sacking, which was a very sensible response. What we all need at the moment is government ministers appointing newspaper columnists.
Next it was Owen Jones’s turn. The horny-handed tribune of the workers dared to suggest on Twitter there were probably more appropriate candidates for progressive outrage than Moore or Burchill, and was promptly vilified for his own treachery.

Then, just as the whole thing was starting to resemble a surreal feminist/LGBT Marx brother’s sketch, in rushed gay rights activist Peter Tatchell shouting “Make that three hard-boiled eggs!” Actually, I couldn’t quite make out what Peter’s take on the whole issue was, but what I do know is he spent the next hour or so vainly trying to convince people he hadn’t become the new Bernard Manning.
I’ve got to be honest; I’ve found the spectacle of the cream of the progressive movement re-enacting the final scene from Reservoir Dogs strangely exhilarating. It’s like watching a grainy video from the 1970s, with Norman Mailer sitting in some run down cinema in Greenwich Village, swearing at Germaine Greer, and screaming “You damn harpies!” at every women in the room.
It’s also quite illustrative of some of the problems affecting the radical Left at the moment: not least the fact that a significant fraction of the radical Left is utterly bonkers. I’ve got my differences with Suzanne Moore – as a man I don’t actually feel collective responsibility for the breast-implant scandal, for example – but anyone who claims Moore is prejudiced is jumping an exceedingly large shark.

But the fight for equality has always been a bare-knuckle one. That’s because – in truth – it’s not based on equality at all. It’s about primacy.
Throughout the Eighties, as a debate began to open up within the black community in the US about attitudes towards women, a popular argument was that this represented a dangerous distraction from the “real struggle” for racial equality. Some even went so far as to claim black men had enough on their plates as it was, without having to shoulder the additional burden of worrying about “their women’s” distinct place in society. And that attitude is reflected in this week’s gender-storm. Julie Burchill is at least being honest when she tells the transgender community to get off her lawn: “Shims, shemales, whatever you're calling yourselves these days – don't threaten or bully us lowly natural-born women, I warn you”. The radical Left acknowledges everyone’s right to equality. But it also demands everyone takes a ticket, and gets in line.

Though those fighting the good fight would never be caught dead admitting it, they’ve spent decades constructing, and scrapping over, a tightly defined hierarchy of oppression. And that hierarchy is invariably a self-serving reflection of prevailing internal power cliques. On the Left it currently looks like this: Tier 1 Women, Tier 2 Black, Tier 3 Gay, Tier 4 Everyone Else.
What’s interesting, is that this hierarchy does not actually reflect actual influence or social advancement. So while the gay rights lobby has proved by far the most successful in altering perceptions, and securing legislative change, amongst the Left it does not enjoy the benefit of all-gay shortlists, shadow cabinet quotas, a dedicated shadow ministry, etc. And if gay activists or black activists within Labour’s ranks were to push for these things then it’s not the white, male dinosaurs they’d find standing in their way, but Labour’s women.

Don’t get me wrong; as Daniel Day-Lewis and Steven Spielberg are about to remind us, some civil wars need to be fought. And while I’m sympathetic to Moore, those of us who can’t even understand where her accusers are coming from could do worse than read this response. But seriously, guys, try and keep your eyes on the prize.
I remember a year ago getting into a debate about lack of women’s representation in the Labour Party. Several people were tweeting the usual refrain “Why aren’t there more women in senior positions in the shadow cabinet?” I responded by pointing out that in 2010 Labour held its most open leadership election for three decades. And not a single female member of the shadow cabinet bothered to even stand.
If you want genuine equality you don’t actually have to stand in line. But you do at least need to buy that ticket.

#242

cleanhands posted:

Goethestein posted:

thirdplace posted:

i had an old friend stay with me for a week and change recently, basically until my roommates got sick of him and honestly so did i. he's a fuckup, he makes bad choices like getting blackout drunk before going to work and getting caught by police doing dumb illegal things! he's on track to homelessness for sure and i dread the day when he comes back with no other place to go and my heavily indebted ass has to chose between turning out a childhood friend + shitting on professed quasimarxist ideals and getting rode by a guy who would be fine if he didn't do stoopid selfd indulgent things. but guess what! while my bougie family was investing in college funds and reading bedtime stories his dad was kicking the shit out of him and his mom was doped to the gills on antipsychotics while dragging him to weird cults and literally teaching him how to huff gasoline. so they're the fuckups???? but his mama was a rape victim many times over and half native and god knows the shit her folks went through because its almost like the psycihic wounds (we hilariously call them "mental illness" as if they were discrete or biological or something BREAIN CHEMICAL IMBALANCE) caused by race violence and primitive acquisition and trusty ol' material want are passed down through the generations like treasured heirlooms

the problem with these kinds of things is that they don't control for heritability. by which I mean, maybe he's a stupid worthless asshole because his mother and father were both stupid worthless assholes and passed the propensity down to him?

its not always that easy, my moms is clever and emotional and my dad is cool and boring, and i got the emotional and boring parts. it just go's to show you cant be too carefull!

interesting! i got the clever and cool parts and they're not even my parents

Edited by ilmdge ()

#243

deadken posted:

i have a friend who used to be on heroin, he dropped out of school, he'd start fights, got kicked out of home a couple of times. i'd see him at parties in clothes he'd been wearing for days, sitting in a corner, staring into empty space for hours on end. he could very easily have ended up being homeless. but guess what, he didn't. instead he's now got a job and is going back to uni next year, he has a girlfriend and existential angst aside is doing ok. why? because despite the slow breakdown of his family and his addictions and everything else Class Is The Primary Determining Factor In Basically Anything



in truth, the only reason i;m not and face down in a gutter right now is because i was born into an upper middle class family. granted, i'm going to be dead in the next few years anyways but perpetuating a languid life with as many more unbearable years is the metric of success in western society.

#244

Goethestein posted:

thirdplace posted:

i had an old friend stay with me for a week and change recently, basically until my roommates got sick of him and honestly so did i. he's a fuckup, he makes bad choices like getting blackout drunk before going to work and getting caught by police doing dumb illegal things! he's on track to homelessness for sure and i dread the day when he comes back with no other place to go and my heavily indebted ass has to chose between turning out a childhood friend + shitting on professed quasimarxist ideals and getting rode by a guy who would be fine if he didn't do stoopid selfd indulgent things. but guess what! while my bougie family was investing in college funds and reading bedtime stories his dad was kicking the shit out of him and his mom was doped to the gills on antipsychotics while dragging him to weird cults and literally teaching him how to huff gasoline. so they're the fuckups???? but his mama was a rape victim many times over and half native and god knows the shit her folks went through because its almost like the psycihic wounds (we hilariously call them "mental illness" as if they were discrete or biological or something BREAIN CHEMICAL IMBALANCE) caused by race violence and primitive acquisition and trusty ol' material want are passed down through the generations like treasured heirlooms

the problem with these kinds of things is that they don't control for heritability. by which I mean, maybe he's a stupid worthless asshole because his mother and father were both stupid worthless assholes and passed the propensity down to him?



is the asshole allele recessive or dominant??

#245

hey posted:

I used to volunteer at a homeless shelter and I could walk away with that notion with a lot of homeless people. Not all homeless people are the insane people trying to communicate with aliens while vomiting all over themselves.
One of the biggest roadblocks for homeless people to getting a job was having no address/phone. Without it many business would would never consider hiring someone. The jobs homeless people could get were completely humiliating and exploitative.
And this was in Canada, a bastion of social welfare. I can't imagine how much worse it it could be in America

I wish you would kill yourself goatstein. You suck so much



a prepaid phone is $10. you can make up an address. did you ever consider that maybe they were making up lame excuses? never presume to know the bottom of a person's capacity for self-destruction

#246

cleanhands posted:

Goethestein posted:

thirdplace posted:

i had an old friend stay with me for a week and change recently, basically until my roommates got sick of him and honestly so did i. he's a fuckup, he makes bad choices like getting blackout drunk before going to work and getting caught by police doing dumb illegal things! he's on track to homelessness for sure and i dread the day when he comes back with no other place to go and my heavily indebted ass has to chose between turning out a childhood friend + shitting on professed quasimarxist ideals and getting rode by a guy who would be fine if he didn't do stoopid selfd indulgent things. but guess what! while my bougie family was investing in college funds and reading bedtime stories his dad was kicking the shit out of him and his mom was doped to the gills on antipsychotics while dragging him to weird cults and literally teaching him how to huff gasoline. so they're the fuckups???? but his mama was a rape victim many times over and half native and god knows the shit her folks went through because its almost like the psycihic wounds (we hilariously call them "mental illness" as if they were discrete or biological or something BREAIN CHEMICAL IMBALANCE) caused by race violence and primitive acquisition and trusty ol' material want are passed down through the generations like treasured heirlooms

the problem with these kinds of things is that they don't control for heritability. by which I mean, maybe he's a stupid worthless asshole because his mother and father were both stupid worthless assholes and passed the propensity down to him?

its not always that easy, my moms is clever and emotional and my dad is cool and boring, and i got the emotional and boring parts. it just go's to show you cant be too carefull!

Lol are you saying coolness is X recessive

#247
1. no it isn't, a prepaid phone is around $50 new for the handset. could get it second hand off CL, but oops no computer access. and thanks to antiterrorism initiatives you need ID and proof of address to buy one. guess what les heaumlesses don't have
2. unless you're literally talking about cash in hand day labor then no lol
#248

Though those fighting the good fight would never be caught dead admitting it, they’ve spent decades constructing, and scrapping over, a tightly defined hierarchy of oppression. And that hierarchy is invariably a self-serving reflection of prevailing internal power cliques. On the Left it currently looks like this: Tier 1 Women, Tier 2 Black, Tier 3 Gay, Tier 4 Everyone Else.
What’s interesting, is that this hierarchy does not actually reflect actual influence or social advancement.

Lol as well.

#249

Goethestein posted:

hey posted:

I used to volunteer at a homeless shelter and I could walk away with that notion with a lot of homeless people. Not all homeless people are the insane people trying to communicate with aliens while vomiting all over themselves.
One of the biggest roadblocks for homeless people to getting a job was having no address/phone. Without it many business would would never consider hiring someone. The jobs homeless people could get were completely humiliating and exploitative.
And this was in Canada, a bastion of social welfare. I can't imagine how much worse it it could be in America

I wish you would kill yourself goatstein. You suck so much

a prepaid phone is $10. you can make up an address. did you ever consider that maybe they were making up lame excuses? never presume to know the bottom of a person's capacity for self-destruction


#250

littlegreenpills posted:

1. no it isn't, a prepaid phone is around $50 new for the handset. could get it second hand off CL, but oops no computer access. and thanks to antiterrorism initiatives you need ID and proof of address to buy one. guess what les heaumlesses don't have
2. unless you're literally talking about cash in hand day labor then no lol



http://www.walmart.com/browse/cell-phones/no-contract-phones-plans/3944_542371_1072335/?_refineresult=true&catNavId=1072335&facet=price%3A0+-+%2410||price%3A%2410+-+%2420&ic=48_0&path=0%3A3944&ref_values=428983+500841&povid=cat1072335-env460189-moduleA111512-lLinkLHNShopByPrice1Under20Dollars

you don't need ID or proof of address to buy a burner phone, i bought one in florida two years ago when my phone broke and they didn't ask me for shit. unless your job is mailing you paychecks i'm not sure what they would ever need a valid address for

#251

Goethestein posted:

littlegreenpills posted:

1. no it isn't, a prepaid phone is around $50 new for the handset. could get it second hand off CL, but oops no computer access. and thanks to antiterrorism initiatives you need ID and proof of address to buy one. guess what les heaumlesses don't have
2. unless you're literally talking about cash in hand day labor then no lol

http://www.walmart.com/browse/cell-phones/no-contract-phones-plans/3944_542371_1072335/?_refineresult=true&catNavId=1072335&facet=price%3A0+-+%2410||price%3A%2410+-+%2420&ic=48_0&path=0%3A3944&ref_values=428983+500841&povid=cat1072335-env460189-moduleA111512-lLinkLHNShopByPrice1Under20Dollars

you don't need ID or proof of address to buy a burner phone, i bought one in florida two years ago when my phone broke and they didn't ask me for shit. unless your job is mailing you paychecks i'm not sure what they would ever need a valid address for


hint: you were white

you work in HR, don't you habitually ask people for ID or an address before you hire them. also if you're homeless they throw you out of walmart. oops

#252
Then you're a fucking idiot man


edit goatstein I mean obv
#253

Goethestein posted:

littlegreenpills posted:

1. no it isn't, a prepaid phone is around $50 new for the handset. could get it second hand off CL, but oops no computer access. and thanks to antiterrorism initiatives you need ID and proof of address to buy one. guess what les heaumlesses don't have
2. unless you're literally talking about cash in hand day labor then no lol

http://www.walmart.com/browse/cell-phones/no-contract-phones-plans/3944_542371_1072335/?_refineresult=true&catNavId=1072335&facet=price%3A0+-+%2410||price%3A%2410+-+%2420&ic=48_0&path=0%3A3944&ref_values=428983+500841&povid=cat1072335-env460189-moduleA111512-lLinkLHNShopByPrice1Under20Dollars

you don't need ID or proof of address to buy a burner phone, i bought one in florida two years ago when my phone broke and they didn't ask me for shit. unless your job is mailing you paychecks i'm not sure what they would ever need a valid address for



it's a lot more expensive in Canada for telecommunications. in any case you're a reactionary shit lord who has no idea what it's like to be homeless.

#254
does prepay phone credit expire after a month whether you use it or not in the States as well? because if so lol
#255
also if a homeless person gets a phone where the fuck is he supposed to charge it
#256

Goethestein posted:

the problem with these kinds of things is that they don't control for heritability. by which I mean, maybe he's a stupid worthless asshole because his mother and father were both stupid worthless assholes and passed the propensity down to him?

this is not true of my friend altho no need to make it about my friend. the larger point is, sure many of the things you say are technically true but what you're missing is how dependent those actions & thought processes are on
a.) good parenting, which is a crap shoot and unjustly tied to class for reasons already described
b.) good mental health, which for many if not most people requires a relatively low level of stress. bad mental health leads to the exact self destructiveness you not incorrectly point out as being a proximate cause of problems, but stopping there is sort of like "if the stabbing victims would just stop bleeding they would be fine!~"

#257
[account deactivated]
#258
i wish goatstein wasnt occasionally funny so i could hate him
#259
also street homelessness is like the tip of an iceberg of bad housing situations. one study in toronto showed that for every one person on the street there were 23 people in housing situations so bad that they had health outcomes equivalent to living on the street.
#260
#261
idk why anyone is unironically arguing with anything goatstein's said itt as though those opinions are somehow worth engaging with, literally anything else is a better use of your posting time
#262

drwhat posted:

better use of your posting time



lol

#263
[account deactivated]
#264

littlegreenpills posted:

Goethestein posted:

littlegreenpills posted:

1. no it isn't, a prepaid phone is around $50 new for the handset. could get it second hand off CL, but oops no computer access. and thanks to antiterrorism initiatives you need ID and proof of address to buy one. guess what les heaumlesses don't have
2. unless you're literally talking about cash in hand day labor then no lol

http://www.walmart.com/browse/cell-phones/no-contract-phones-plans/3944_542371_1072335/?_refineresult=true&catNavId=1072335&facet=price%3A0+-+%2410||price%3A%2410+-+%2420&ic=48_0&path=0%3A3944&ref_values=428983+500841&povid=cat1072335-env460189-moduleA111512-lLinkLHNShopByPrice1Under20Dollars

you don't need ID or proof of address to buy a burner phone, i bought one in florida two years ago when my phone broke and they didn't ask me for shit. unless your job is mailing you paychecks i'm not sure what they would ever need a valid address for

hint: you were white

you work in HR, don't you habitually ask people for ID or an address before you hire them. also if you're homeless they throw you out of walmart. oops



we certainly ask for an address, although i'm certain that nobody ever actually checks it. a lot of places will ask for an ID but that also isnt difficult to obtain

#265
[account deactivated]
#266

littlegreenpills posted:

also if a homeless person gets a phone where the fuck is he supposed to charge it



library, homeless shelter, bus station, anywhere with an outside plug

#267
try it, they'll kick you out. especially if you smell like a butt and have many interesting skin diseases
#268
lowtax once tried to make a number of the trolls from LF into mods of a subforum dedicated to trolling. i think it was me, deek, goatstein and hardcore sax. anyway it failed within a day because we just tried to find ways to break the forum. now i think the rhizzone is what would have happened if that forum persisted for any length of time. just trolls trolling trolls like farts on the wind.
#269

littlegreenpills posted:

try it, they'll kick you out. especially if you smell like a butt and have many interesting skin diseases



then there is no hope, you are worthless and should kill yourself

#270

Goethestein posted:

littlegreenpills posted:

try it, they'll kick you out. especially if you smell like a butt and have many interesting skin diseases

then there is no hope, you are worthless and should kill yourself



you should

#271
rude!
#272

Goethestein posted:

littlegreenpills posted:

also if a homeless person gets a phone where the fuck is he supposed to charge it

library, homeless shelter, bus station, anywhere with an outside plug



Fla. homeless man arrested for charging phone in park, accused of theft

(CBS/AP) SARASOTA, Fla. - A homeless man spent the night in a Florida jail after a police officer arrested him for charging his cell phone at a public park, calling the act theft.

An arrest report says that a Sarasota police sergeant spotted 28-year-old Darren Kersey charging his phone Sunday evening in a public picnic shelter at Gillespie Park in Sarasota County.

The sergeant told Kersey that the "theft of city utilities will not be tolerated during this bad economy" and then arrested him on a misdemeanor charge of theft of utilities.

Unable to pay the $500 bond, Kersey spent the night in jail. But the Sarasota Herald-Tribune reports that Kersey was released Monday morning after a judge threw the case out, saying the sergeant lacked the legal justification to make the arrest.

#273
Serves him right for making goatstein look like an idiot moron. *squeals*
#274
oh no a homeless dude spent a night in jail
#275
sovietmates goin on a downvoting spree on us rich kids i guess, im not really rich but its important to combat liberalism everywhere you see it
#276
the reason people dont hire the homeless is because they are terrible employees in every way, and for no other reason.
#277

Goethestein posted:

the reason people dont hire the homeless is because they are terrible employees in every way, and for no other reason.

its bc they have no fixed address so its difficult to arrange paye

#278
they can just have checks on file in the office, or do direct deposit. no entry-level job mails paychecks
#279

Goethestein posted:

the reason people dont hire the homeless is because they are terrible employees in every way, and for no other reason.



I would rather hire a guy who sleeps on the park bathroom floor and smells like cumin and feces than half of the sadlords on this forum blaming capitalism for their personal failures

#280

Groulxsmith posted:

Goethestein posted:

the reason people dont hire the homeless is because they are terrible employees in every way, and for no other reason.

I would rather hire a guy who sleeps on the park bathroom floor and smells like cumin and feces than half of the sadlords on this forum blaming capitalism for their personal failures



What if you're like me and are both of those?