Goethestein posted:

it makes perfect sense. you can understand killing in the heat of passion, but not as part of a system. why can you understand imprisonment as part of a system, but not in the heat of passion?

bc you dont imprison someone in the heat of passion? that makes no fucking sense at all. imprisoning someone is significantly different from killing them. and even if u did "imprison someone in the heat of passion" you can always let them out and deal with the consequences or someone else can rescue them or whatever because welp imprisoning someone is not the same as killing them because death is sort of permanent? you are posting like a d&d pedant

the rationale for the killing in the heat of passion is identical to the killing through the justice system: the person to be killed is worthless and deserves to die. if anything, the passionless calculus of this decision is far more defensible, as surely their crimes were greater and their guilt more certain.

well first no the rationale for killing in the heat of passion is that you felt such powerful emotion that you couldn't control yourself, there's no "rationale" by definition

but regardless the whole point of a court is that everything is up in the air and at least somewhat uncertain and has to be hashed out beyond any reasonable doubt because you're dealing with an uninvolved third party arbiter who saw nothing and can't really "know" what happened in any final sense, which is why making final decisions in a court is indefensible because the chance of being wrong is always there even with rational arguments and evidence

whereas if im a peasant rising up against a feudal lord or mexican guy in maricopa county prison assassinating sherriff joe or whatever im acting based on my own two eyes outside an oppressive system in which i can find no actual recourse and so i have no choice but to passionately destroy it

in other words yeah fuck "passionless calculus" of human lives that's why revolutions should happen in the first place (so the oppressed can get at a life beyond the utility of oppressive classes)

ok so you're cool with random murder but not rationalized killing based on evidence? human life is without inherent value. you admit that when you admit your willingness to take life under certain conditions. most people simply find those acceptable conditions to be different than the ones you do.

well everything is without "inherent" value
I'm cool with revolutionary justice which may involve human death, i'm not cool with sitting there thinking about it rationally and then killing someone who is already neutralized as a threat (since by necessity he's already captured and in jail if yr gonna officially execute him)

on top of everything else the de sade quote (on its own out of context anyway) doesn't even condone "random murder," it just says that's its more understandable because doing something out of strong emotions that you yourself can be held accountable for (to whatever extent if you believe in that kind of thing) at least has a comprehensible motive whereas actually "rationally" choosing to kill someone when they're already in prison and their death will have no actual positive effect and you're having someone else do it for you and distributing blame societally to an impersonal system of law is actually pretty incomprehensible

The_Schliski posted:

there are still branch davidians living there btw here's a fun fact: that their prophet's name at the time was david koresh and that they were "branch davidians" is coincidental

Not totally coincidental. The sect was first named after David, the second king of ancient Israel, founder of the holy city of Zion, author of half the psalms, and generally the most important person in the Hebrew Bible. The Star of David, which is in the Branch Davidian flag, is named after him; and it was with him in mind that Vernon Howell changed his name to David Koresh, after becoming their prophet.

The_Schliski posted:

Agnus_Dei posted:

The_Schliski posted:

there are still branch davidians living there btw here's a fun fact: that their prophet's name at the time was david koresh and that they were "branch davidians" is coincidental

Not totally coincidental. The sect was first named after David, the second king of ancient Israel, founder of the holy city of Zion, author of half the psalms, and generally the most important person in the Hebrew Bible. The Star of David, which is in the Branch Davidian flag, is named after him; and it was with him in mind that Vernon Howell changed his name to David Koresh, after becoming their prophet.

i thought that might be it but i've never read that whole wikipedia entry because boy howdy it's long!

you should, it's interesting material. apparently one of the episodes in koresh's rise to power involved his rival digging up a dead lady from the group's cemetery and challenging koresh to a "resurrection contest". this was neatly sidestepped when koresh called the cops and reported that the man had violated a corpse lmao

littlegreenpills posted:

The_Schliski posted:

Agnus_Dei posted:

The_Schliski posted:

there are still branch davidians living there btw here's a fun fact: that their prophet's name at the time was david koresh and that they were "branch davidians" is coincidental

Not totally coincidental. The sect was first named after David, the second king of ancient Israel, founder of the holy city of Zion, author of half the psalms, and generally the most important person in the Hebrew Bible. The Star of David, which is in the Branch Davidian flag, is named after him; and it was with him in mind that Vernon Howell changed his name to David Koresh, after becoming their prophet.

i thought that might be it but i've never read that whole wikipedia entry because boy howdy it's long!



you should, it's interesting material. apparently one of the episodes in koresh's rise to power involved his rival digging up a dead lady from the group's cemetery and challenging koresh to a "resurrection contest". this was neatly sidestepped when koresh called the cops and reported that the man had violated a corpse lmao

u should watch rules of engagement too

discipline posted:

haha this thread is swarming with federal agents now gj yall

care to answer to your crimes mr. federallady???

Impper posted:

there arent any actual federal agents on this forum lol

how would you know this

Goethestein posted:

of course it has a positive effect. it makes people feel good that the person is dead.

i gues your right then bcause id be glad if u were dead >8D

HenryKrinkle posted:

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Thanks... I think I just might

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

Paradol posted:

The state should never be given the right to murder its own citizens.

oooh how principled and uncompromising, you must be a Man of Morality

I prefer "Great Man of Morality", but I'm evolved enough to not stand on ceremony.