Cycloneboy posted:

Goethestein posted:

its pretty obvious that the mens rights movement has seized on making female-on-male rape an issue entirely to undermine women. men still lol and hoot most heartedly at prison rape, fat girl-on-drunk-dude rape, and teen boy-older woman rape. as well they should

in my experience men in the MRM get pissed at that shit and society's almost welcoming attitude to such rapes. as well they should

they pretend to, but they never actually advocate against it when it comes up, it's just there to undermine women

mustang19 posted:

so feminists should stop being dicks to MRAs? i don't think they are, its more like MRAs think feminism is some kind of illuminati conspiracy.

there's a whole article over on Jezebel which is titled, quite literally, "Fuck You, Men's Rights Activists". that is what the article in the OP is referring to (it's not from an MRA, but an advocate for male victims).

No New Posts The Militant Fag/Dyke Agenda
The media and its left-wing supporters are trying to force people into accepting faggotry and dykism. Talk about the issue here.

what

Superabound posted:

mustang19 posted:

yeah, reading that article it does seem unnecessarily hostile. but at the same time i think the point is that the 1970s and 80s mras were cool because they weren't unnecessarily confrontational neckbeards. which i know nothing about but i think they might have a point there. reading mra forums does tend to give off the impression of the movement that she describes.

i doubt there are many jezebel feminism bloggers that were even alive in the 70s and 80s. plus those kinds of attitudes reek of the same despicable "i liked the negroes a lot better back in the day when they still knew their place" shit i have to hear on a regular basis

but men dont know their place yet, rape advocacy is a cure for their anomie

idk, Sturgeon's Law I guess. there's some fucking disgusting shit on major feminist sites too, e.g. Feministe's defense of a female rapist, Hugo Schwyzer's defense of the molestation of an 11yo boy by his nanny, and Jezebel's article about how a bunch of their writers/editors beat their boyfriends. and that's not counting some of the stupider shit that I just assume is crazies on the fringes.

i honestly dont spend enough time on the internet. terrible things though. thanks for letting me know there actually are fail feminists. so far i was only aware of "die cis scum".

The Hathor Legacy is where I first recall learning about the evidence behind rapists having a pathology rather than simply being "misguided" (generally it knocks it out of the park), hell Feministe's Predator Theory article was pretty good and I'm lucky I found it.

what pathology? i mean, i'm sure rapists have a pathology, but i'm curious what their theory is.

Cycloneboy posted:

mustang19 posted:

The Hathor Legacy is where I first recall learning about the evidence behind rapists having a pathology rather than simply being "misguided" (generally it knocks it out of the park), hell Feministe's Predator Theory article was pretty good and I'm lucky I found it.

what pathology? i mean, i'm sure rapists have a pathology, but i'm curious what their theory is.

Feministe's Predator Theoryarticle lays it out fairly clearly: rapists are shitheads. The Hathor Legacy attributes child abuse as a major, major risk factor (i.e. the risks are incredibly low if someone has never been abused, though obv still very low for even victims of childhood abuse given that <10% of the population is rapists) and links rapists' behavior to Narcissistic Personality Disorder (don't know if that's correct).

Basically, rapists consistently show in studies and interviews that they're narcissistic, sociopathic, manipulative, misogynistic/misandrist (male-on-female/female-on-male) shitheels.

but i read somewhere that half of undergrad men admitted they would rape someone if they wouldn't get caught. that seems to make these desires more widespread than envisaged. its just that only the sociopath shitheels act on them apparently.

Cycloneboy posted:

mustang19 posted:

but i read somewhere that half of undergrad men admitted they would rape someone if they wouldn't get caught. that seems to make these desires more widespread than envisaged. its just that only the sociopath shitheels act on them apparently.

i think it's sort of a lack of understanding of a hypothetical that is obtained in the reality. a person may think to themselves "raping someone sounds pretty sexy" (just like someone may think to themselves "getting raped sounds pretty sexy") but not actually want to rape someone (or be raped).

i mean it's why you see men come out and defend female-on-male child molestation of teenage boys. a 13 year old (boy or girl) may fantasize about sex with an attractive adult member of their preferred sex, and that's perfectly healthy and normal, but obviously that's psychologically damaging if it actually happens. men are not taught that these fantasies belong strictly in the realm of fantasy, and thus fail to recognize that they are not actually arousing irl (thus their defense of female child molesters like Mary Kay Letourneau). so, like, a domination fantasy may make somebody think "yeah i guess maybe i'd physically force someone to have sex w/ me" but there's a huge difference between that fantasy and actually physically forcing someone to have sex with you, and it's clear when given the opportunity, but making that connection is kind of difficult? idk i hope you understand what i'm saying.

i see i just dont believe you (not in a passive aggressive way, just in a sociological evidence way). literally every frat boy has raped or coerced someone into a sex at one point or another in their "career". i think the apparent rarity of rapists has more to do with underreporting.

Cycloneboy posted:

mustang19 posted:

i see i just dont believe you. literally every frat boy has raped or coerced someone into a sex at one point or another in their "career". i think the apparent rarity of rapists has more to do with underreporting.

if it's underreporting, why would you say that you would rape somebody, then not say that you have?

actually like one in eight men admit to rape. that might just be child sexual abuse but i think it's too many for that explanation. just a quick google of "percent men admit to rape", that's all.

i mean both are pretty uncool opinions to hold. and as the Predator Theory article points out, Lisak's numbers put 439 attempted or completed rapes at the hands of 76 men, which is more than enough to deal with any worries of "underreporting." after all, if 4% of the population commits an average of 5.8 rapes each (and of course these individuals' "careers" are not yet over), they can easily rape a whole bunch of women and produce the distressingly high proportion of rape victims our society notices.

i dunno i guess it depends on the sampling population. it turns into a complicated empirical question.

tpaine posted:

SHUT UP!!! SHUT UPPP!!!!

sorry if i offended you tpaine, this is a safe space

mustang19 posted:

Cycloneboy posted:

mustang19 posted:

i see i just dont believe you. literally every frat boy has raped or coerced someone into a sex at one point or another in their "career". i think the apparent rarity of rapists has more to do with underreporting.

if it's underreporting, why would you say that you would rape somebody, then not say that you have?

actually like one in eight men admit to rape. that might just be child sexual abuse but i think it's too many for that explanation. just a quick google of "percent men admit to rape", that's all.

one in eight sounds a bit too high. the studies i've seen always put the numbers in the 5-10% range. the worst i've ever seen is 15% but that's not the general stat.

although CSA is linked to adult-on-adult rape, physical abuse is more closely linked. CSA is more closely linked to child molestation (though victim-abuser patterns in that regard are about 1/8, with heightening effects from other things like neglect, female perpetrators and violence in the home).

mustang19 posted:

i dunno i guess it depends on the sampling population. it turns into a complicated empirical question.

i agree. afaik there are no good national studies of rape perpetration, only victimization, which isn't as useful in identifying whether repeat offenders are responsible. and obv it depends on the country/social situation, since rape is especially common in wartorn countries due to its use as a weapon of terror and demoralization against "enemy" populations.

Cycloneboy posted:

one in eight sounds a bit too high. the studies i've seen always put the numbers in the 5-10% range. the worst i've ever seen is 15% but that's not the general stat.

guess google can fail too

i agree. afaik there are no good national studies of rape perpetration, only victimization, which isn't as useful in identifying whether repeat offenders are responsible. and obv it depends on the country/social situation, since rape is especially common in wartorn countries due to its use as a weapon of terror and demoralization against "enemy" populations.

that's the other thing, when rape is socially sanctioned it becomes much more common. for some frats date rape is practically a ritual.

Superabound posted:

mustang19 posted:

but i read somewhere that half of undergrad men admitted they would rape someone if they wouldn't get caught. that seems to make these desires more widespread than envisaged. its just that only the sociopath shitheels act on them apparently.

fear of getting caught keeps literally 99% of humanity from engaging in constant barbarism every single day. do you have any idea how many people i would strangle to death with my bare hands with a goddamn smile on my face if i knew i "wouldnt get caught". thats all just engaging in meaningless hypothetical power fantasies.

human beings (especially college kids) are extremely unreliable narrators of their own lives

its 118 am, everyone go to bed.

Superabound posted:

mustang19 posted:

but i read somewhere that half of undergrad men admitted they would rape someone if they wouldn't get caught. that seems to make these desires more widespread than envisaged. its just that only the sociopath shitheels act on them apparently.

fear of getting caught keeps literally 99% of humanity from engaging in constant barbarism every single day. do you have any idea how many people i would strangle to death with my bare hands with a goddamn smile on my face if i knew i "wouldnt get caught". thats all just engaging in meaningless hypothetical power fantasies.

human beings (especially college kids) are extremely unreliable narrators of their own lives

are you being sarcastic or do you need to be institutionalized

Cycloneboy posted:

mustang19 posted:

i see i just dont believe you. literally every frat boy has raped or coerced someone into a sex at one point or another in their "career". i think the apparent rarity of rapists has more to do with underreporting.

if it's underreporting, why would you say that you would rape somebody, then not say that you have? i mean both are pretty uncool opinions to hold. and as the Predator Theory article points out, Lisak's numbers put 439 attempted or completed rapes at the hands of 76 men, which is more than enough to deal with any worries of "underreporting." after all, if 4% of the population commits an average of 5.8 rapes each (and of course these individuals' "careers" are not yet over), they can easily rape a whole bunch of women and produce the distressingly high proportion of rape victims our society notices.

*sits in front of computer, endlessly feeding statistics into it, clattering furiously on the keyboard, until it makes a 'ping noise' and the screen flashes with a single word: RAPE* the machines will be done i guess. seems like i'm part of the 4%

Superabound posted:

mustang19 posted:

but i read somewhere that half of undergrad men admitted they would rape someone if they wouldn't get caught. that seems to make these desires more widespread than envisaged. its just that only the sociopath shitheels act on them apparently.

fear of getting caught keeps literally 99% of humanity from engaging in constant barbarism every single day. do you have any idea how many people i would strangle to death with my bare hands with a goddamn smile on my face if i knew i "wouldnt get caught". thats all just engaging in meaningless hypothetical power fantasies.

human beings (especially college kids) are extremely unreliable narrators of their own lives

It's cool to extrapolate on the entire human race based on your own messed up mental functionings