mustang19 posted:wow. epic trottery from the start. 0 stalins out of 5
My wit fails me. ed: By the way, "democratic" != "elections"
i don't understand this critique, what are you saying here? that the 'dictatorship of the bourgeoisie' is not a useful analysis? that representatives and cadres weren't elected through a democratic process? Im from the hood stupid what kinda FAQs are these?
We live in dark times. Poverty. Endless war. Starvation. Disease. Cruelty. Rape. Suffering. Ecological catastrophe. It may seem hopeless. However, there have been moments when humanity reached higher, tried to be something better. What seemed impossible became possible. Revolution. A red wave spread across the globe. Humanity walked another road for a time. Even though the past revolutions have ended, they showed that the system is not invincible. We can do better. We can take power. Next time, we will hold power longer and take the revolution even further. Even our failings are better than the “success” of capitalism. The last great revolutions taught us many things, However, we need to understand that they are over. The last great waves of revolution have ended, even though scattered, shattered fragments remain. We will not go forward by merely looking backward. We will not go forward by trying to opportunistically cobble together the remnants of the past. Instead, we must learn from the past in order to surpass it, to go forward. We must study the past, sum up the past, advance the science, prepare ourselves, build the organization, cultivate the leadership, to initiate the next great wave of revolution. The Leading Light has the science, the organization, and leadership to really win. In any revolution, some are more advanced than others. Some people see farther. They guide. They help others to see. They pull others forward, sometimes kicking and screaming. They are leaders of leaders, teachers of teachers. They are lights in the dark. They lead. The most advanced. The vanguard. The Leading Light.
When any great revolutionary breakthrough occurs, the science takes several forms. There are levels of understanding. People do not advance all at once. We have prepared this issue of Leading Light for those just entering our circles. It is meant as an introduction. All new cadre and supporters should familiarize themselves with these answers. These answers are the beginning of knowledge, not the end. Keep advancing. Prove yourself. Follow the Leading Light all the way. Be the Leading Light.
1. What is the Leading Light?
Leading Light Communist Organization (LLCO) is the vanguard organization of a new type. It is an internationalist organization to initiate the next great wave of communist revolution. It exists in many countries, both in the Third World and First World. The Leading Light is mostly clandestine. The Leading Light is guided by the new breakthrough, the highest stage, the revolutionary science of our age, Leading Light Communism. Only the Leading Light has the science, organization, and leadership to reach true communism.
2. What is the vanguard?
Not everyone is at the same place in their development. Some people have very reactionary views. Some people have confused views. Some people are just beginning to wake up. Some people have moderately advanced views. Some are more advanced. Others even more advanced. When the most advanced organize themselves, they form the vanguard. The vanguard has the most advanced revolutionary science. They are the most advanced who have come together to actually lead. They are the ones who will wake others up. They elevate humanity. They are teachers of teachers. They are leaders of leaders. They are the ones who will lead humanity out of the darkness. In this era, the Leading Light is the global vanguard.
3. What about other groups that claim to be revolutionary?
There are many other groups that claim to be revolutionary. Some are progressive, but flawed. Some are actually reactionary. Some are fascist. Some are revisionist. Some are wreckers who betray the revolution. Some are false-flag operations. The way we determine who is right and who is wrong, who is the vanguard and who is not, is by the methods of science. Revolutionary science in command. Only the Leading Light of revolutionary science can show us the road to freedom.
4. Should we unite with other groups?
As a matter of principle, we should unite as many people as possible under revolutionary-scientific leadership, under Leading Light leadership. However, not everyone is scientific. Not everyone shares our goals. Not everyone represents the proletariat, the exploited and oppressed. Not everyone is at the same place. Not everyone will follow revolutionary science. We unite with other, less advanced groups when it serves our aims, the aims of the proletariat. We do not unite for the sake of uniting. When we do unite with less advanced groups, we unite on a tactical basis and in a critical way. We always fly the red flag high. We always vie for leadership within coalitions and united fronts.
5. Why is the Leading Light mostly clandestine?
The Leading Light is clandestine because state repression and paramilitary repression are very real. We seek to destroy the Old Power by any means necessary, they seek to preserve it. We build the New Power. They seek to destroy it by any means necessary. Again and again, the state and their agents target revolutionary organizations, their leaders, and their followers. We should not be naive.
6. What is your goal? What is Leading Light Communism?
Nothing is more revolutionary than Leading Light Communism. Leading Light Communism means the end of all oppression. No classes. No poverty. No exploitation. No gender oppression. No sexism. No national oppression. No racism. No oppression of the young or old. No heterosexism. No oppression of the Earth, our common home. All chains must be broken. Communism is organized around the principle “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need.” Collectivity. Altruism. “Serve the people.” Communism means no state. Since no antagonistic social forces exist, no antagonistic contradictions, no state exists. Communism means equality. Communism is sustainability. Communism is true freedom. Communism is a society where every individual is the best that she can be, while at the same time serving the people. Everyone helps others to thrive, to flourish. Communism can only happen on the global level. New culture. New song. New dance. Communism means a whole new way of life.
Past conceptions of communism were flawed in some respects. Past conceptions often failed to understand the full scope of oppression, instead it focused too much on the oppression only of workers. Oppression is much more complex. Past conceptions also failed to take into account the importance of nature. Nature was seen as something to be conquered, instead of liberated. Past conceptions tended to overemphasize the role of the technology of production — as though technology, in and of itself, could eliminate scarcity and serve up happiness and communism. While the technology of production plays an important role, the most important factor in creating communism is reorganization of social relations, i.e. class war, power struggle. Society was too much seen through a machine paradigm. Past attempts at communist revolution also became dogmatic. Science was abandoned. Only by putting revolutionary science in command can we reach true communism. Leading Light Communism is the next stage of communism. Leading Light has advanced a new conception of communism that breaks with the limited conceptions of past revolutions. Leading Light Communism is the only real communism today.
7. That sounds great, but doesn’t it go against human nature?
Humans have lived in all kinds of social configurations. Some of these configurations were very stratified, like feudalism and capitalism. However, for most of humanity’s existence, humans lived in more egalitarian tribal societies. The indigenous societies of North America, for example, were much more egalitarian than today’s capitalism. In much of the world, people lived in a similar manner for thousands of years. Marx called these societies “primitive communism.” In addition, the great socialist revolutions of the twentieth century proved that humans can live in more egalitarian and communal ways than capitalism provides. At the height of China’s revolution, a quarter of the world’s population was living in some kind of communal arrangement. Even in today’s world, there are pockets of people living in tribal societies. In addition, religious sects and others have chosen to isolate themselves and live in more egalitarian and communal ways — although often this has been within an imperial context. So, the claim that a more communal and egalitarian way of life is contrary to human nature has been proven false by the historical and empirical record.
Even if it were the case that perfect communism or perfect egalitarianism were impossible or not sustainable, this does not mean that it we should not aspire to realize as much of that ideal as possible. Studies have shown that people are more happy and healthier in more egalitarian societies. Humans are empathetic. There are less problems in egalitarian societies. So, we should aspire to realize as much of the communist ideal as possible.
Humans can use society to improve themselves. We can use society to encourage what is best in our natures and discourage what is not. We can use the New Power, the new society, to create a New Humanity, a better humanity.
8. Aren’t humans naturally greedy?
Humans are not naturally greedy. For most of their existence, humans have lived in more communal and egalitarian ways. Soldiers sacrifice themselves for their comrades. Parents sacrifice themselves for their children. Martyrs sacrifice themselves for their cause. Leading Lights sacrifice themselves for the liberation all of humanity and the Earth. Humans are naturally empathetic. We are social animals.
The reason that there is a widespread belief that humans are individualistic and greedy is because we live under capitalism. Capitalism teaches people they need to be individualistic and greedy to get ahead. This society teaches people that it is good to get ahead at the expense of others. This society teaches people that endless consumption is good. The reason that people think everyone is greedy is because so many people are greedy in this society. People are projecting the nature of the capitalist onto human nature. They are projecting the nature of the global bourgeoisie, of the First World, onto humanity.
Even if it was the case that humans were naturally greedy in some way, this does not mean that society should encourage this. Humans have the ability to change. Human nature is very malleable. Humans use society to modify their behavior. So, even if there were bad traits that are currently part of our nature, then we should use society to eliminate these. Society should be used to help perfect humanity, not encourage what is bad in us. We will create a New Humanity.
9. Are you talking about social engineering?
Yes, but so what? All societies are engineered. The question is what are they engineered for. This society is designed so that the few countries of the First World and their allies benefit by exploiting the vast majority of humanity in the Third World. This society is designed so power and wealth are unevenly distributed. This society is designed to encourage inequality. This society is a dictatorship of the global bourgeoisie. This society is designed to keep them in power. This society is designed to sacrifice people and the Earth for profits. Poverty, endless wars, ecological catastrophe are part of this system. The culture of the current system teaches people that the capitalist system is good and natural. The reality is that it is not good and it is not natural in any special way.
Leading Light Communism is a whole new system. We have designed a system that is governed by revolutionary science, Leading Light Communism. Leading Light Communism puts people and the Earth over profits. Leading Light Communism serves the people. It eliminates oppression. It eliminates poverty. It eliminates inequality. It promotes real altruism. It perfects humanity. It is sustainable. Leading Light Communism is engineered to liberate everyone and the Earth. Leading Light Communism aims at a New Humanity.
10. How will we take power? What form will our revolution take?
We are in the middle of a great war by the First World against the Third World. Poverty. Famine. Suffering. Cruelty. Violence. Bombs. The imperialists of the First World turn the Third World into a giant graveyard. Those in power will not give up without a fight. The system can’t be reformed out of existence. There is a right way and a wrong way to fight back. Those who rush into battle without preparation will only meet defeat. Those who rush off without scientific, communist leadership will be defeated. Those who have no discipline will be defeated. Those who have no organization will be defeated. Those who have no plan will be defeated. Such attitudes are those of the petty-bourgeoisie and bourgeoisie. Real change requires Leading Light Communist leadership, organization, and discipline. If you want to make real change in the real world, then you put aside your individualism, emotionalism and pettiness. Drop your ego. You accept the Leading Light Communist leadership. Leading Light Communists will lead a global people’s war to actually win.
Our war is global people’s war. It is a war to end all war. It is a war of liberation. If we do not stand up and defend ourselves, nothing will ever change. Global people’s war is the road to global liberation, to global power. In this sense, People’s war, broadly construed, is universal. Global people’s war is internationalist.
It is important to understand that people’s war is not just a military affair. Where it is possible, we need to create base areas, red zones. In these red zones, we create New Power. We create independent institutions of the oppressed. We create a new state in miniature. We create the people’s army, a mighty red army. We create a new culture. We create a new society in miniature. We create schools for the people. Literacy. We create a revolutionary culture. New art. New song. New dance. We carry out land reform. We begin the liberation of women and youth. We create people’s courts. We create a people’s committees. We create a new, collective economy. We create a new, sustainable relationship between ourselves and nature. We serve the people. We solve their problems. We live the revolution. The red zone will be a beacon to the world’s oppressed and exploited. From there we go forward to conquer power across regions, countries, then, the world.
The world revolution is a global people’s war led by the Leading Light. The liberation struggles in many countries unite into a single global struggle led by the most advanced revolutionary science, Leading Light Communism. Our revolution will come from the darkest places. It will come from the global countryside. It will come from the global slum. It will come from the jungles and mountains of Asia, Africa, and Latin America. The revolution will spread across the Third World, then to the First World. It will dismantle the First World as it currently exists; the New Power will be imposed on the First World whether the populations want it or not. It will sweep away imperialism, capitalism, and all injustice and suffering. It will be a glorious prairie fire of liberation. A new humanity will arise out of this struggle to build a new world.
11. Does the revolution have to be violent? Why not pacifism?
Let’s look at history scientifically. All the great social transformations of the past were complex phenomena. They were conflicts between social forces. Marx said that all of history is the history of class struggle. Past revolutions have had a commandist aspect and a mass aspect. They had a violent aspect and a non-violent aspect. Revolution is not a dinner party. Communist-led revolutions are the radical reorganization of society at the fundamental level. They are transformations of culture, economy, the state, and civil society. One social group takes power from another. Creating Leading Light Communism in our world will necessarily be a revolutionary process. Power and privilege will be radically reorganized. Wealth and its distribution will be radically altered. Entire ways of life will become incompatible with the new social order. Some will support it. Some will oppose it. The transformation will not happen through prayer. It will not happen through magic. It will not happen though hoping and crossing our fingers. To make Leading Light Communism a reality takes reorganization of social forces. We must align friends against enemies. It takes building of institutions of the exploited and oppressed, New Power. It takes education and ideological remolding. And it also takes defending the revolution from those social forces that will destroy it: imperialists, capitalists, feudalists, fascists, First Worldists and other reactionaries. We must dismantle the First World as it currently exists. The reality is these struggles will necessarily have a violent aspect.
12. What about Gandhi and MLK? They won without violence.
Firstly, there is a lot of myth surrounding Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. It is important to know the real history, not the white-washed history that they teach in school.
Secondly, neither Gandhi nor MLK were really out to radically reorganize society at a fundamental level as we are. They were out to reform the current system, to cut a new deal with Old Power. In the case of Gandhi, colonialism and direct British rule was replaced by semi-colonialism, partial and indirect imperialist rule. In the case of MLK, we are not talking about ending empire and capitalism, but expanding its franchise, including full political rights to include Blacks, in the USA. Of course the system is going to be more accommodating to movements which are more reform oriented. If your demand is merely that you want taxes lowered, then, obviously, the system is not going to react the same way to you than if you want to abolish capitalism itself. Liberating all of humanity is not a reformist demand like lowering the drinking age, lowering taxes, changing noise ordinances, etc. Its not even a major reformist demand as Gandhi’s or MLK’s demands were. Leading Light Communism is a radical, fundamental, deep reorganization of the social order. It is the reorganization of all of society. It is taking wealth from some and giving it to others. It is taking power from some and giving it to others. It is changing thousands of years of entrenched social programming. It’s not the kind of thing that gets on the ballot. Leading Light Communism is a revolutionary demand.
In addition, Gandhi was not the alpha and omega of the Indian independence movement. A big factor leading to the success of the Indian independence movement was World War 2. The European empires had destroyed and weakened themselves in that war. They were no longer able to hold onto their colonial possessions. India’s semi-independence occurred in the wider context of anti-colonial struggles worldwide. Not only did the violence of World War 2 allow for the success of that struggle, so did the successful independence movements elsewhere — which were not all non-violent. A struggle in one colonial possession aided the struggle in another because it forced the weakened European empires to become further extended. Armed struggle in one part of the empire indirectly aided the struggle in India, just as World War 2 did. In addition, Gandhi was not the only one fighting for independence. There were other forces too that were not describing themselves as non-violent. The independence process was a complex one. The British turned over power to those they felt they could work with, the Gandhians. This applies to the Black movement too. It occurred in a broader de-colonial struggle globally — all of which were not professing non-violence. There were other forces besides MLK also. Ghettos were burning. The system was forced to bend by a broad spectrum of forces, not all were non-violent. It is simply a myth that non-violence alone led to these cases of reformist change. The actual history is more complex.
Power is not given, it is taken. Obviously, revolution will be met with massive opposition by those who do not want to lose their power and privilege. It is necessary to defend the revolution from those who would destroy it. This defense will entail imposing one’s will on others. Not everyone will just “go along.” There are people who will oppose it and will fight tooth-and-nail to keep capitalism going. The capitalists are willing to butcher and bomb Third World peoples for their resources. Do you think they will stop just because you ask them to? We need real revolution, not fantasy.
13. Can’t we just reform the system?
No. To reach Leading Light Communism, we need to destroy the old world and start over. We are going against thousands of years of entrenched reactionary social programming within society. We plan on eliminating all oppression. We will build a whole new society. We will build a New Power. We are working for a massive reorganization of society. We will take wealth from the global rich and give it to the poor, mostly in the Third World. We will communalize life. We will give real political power to the exploited and oppressed, especially in the Third World. We will give political power to armies of youth. We will dismantle the First World as it currently exists. We will eliminate current conceptions of gender. We will eliminate the state. We will reorganize society around the needs of humanity and the Earth, not the market, not capital, not the First World. We will create new culture, new art, new song, new dance. We will eliminate the distinction between the sphere of work, the domestic, and play. Our revolution cuts the deepest. Leading Light Communism is the most advanced revolution yet known.
Obviously, it will be opposed by those with power and wealth, by those who benefit from the current system. Those with power will compromise on certain issues, but they will never be willing to give up power and change the system at the fundamental level. The idea that we can reach communism by gradually reforming the system is a form of revisionism. Those with power will oppose us at every turn. If it comes down to it, they will always use violence to try to stop the revolution. Power is not given, it is taken. This has been proven over and over by history. The only way to change a system at the fundamental level is through revolution, not reform.
14. Why do you say “science in command?” Isn’t science used to oppress people?
Science is the best set of tools that we have for solving complex problems. Changing all of society, undoing thousands of years of oppression, creating a whole new, communist world based on peace, equality, and justice is going to be very difficult and complex. We will not get there through prayer or magic. The answers are not carried in our veins or identity. Science allows us to look at different paths and see which one will most likely lead to a better world. It allows us to see farther than we otherwise could. Science is a form of collective experience that allows us to overcome the limits of our individuality. Under the current system, science is sometimes used to oppress people. However, this does not mean that science itself is the problem. The answer is not to reject science, but to turn it around, against the oppressor. Revolutionary science, Leading Light Communism, is the opposite of the science of the oppressor. When we say “science in command,” we mean “revolutionary science in command” or “Leading Light Communism in command.”
15. Why do you say Leading Light Communism is the highest stage of revolutionary science?
The oppressors have been perfecting the science of tyranny. They pay some of the best and the brightest from elite colleges to perfect ways to oppress people. They spend billions researching how to keep the capitalist system running smoothly. We must meet force with force. We must meet brain power with brain power. Just as they have developed the science of human oppression, we have been developing the science of human liberation for almost 200 years. Marx was the first to really apply the tools of science, in a rigorous and systematic way, to the problem of reaching communism, total liberation. Since, Marx, there have been many great social experiments — involving billions of people — that have added to this knowledge. We must study the past, especially the Bolshevik and Maoist experiments. We must look at history as a great laboratory. As we go forward, we will face many of the same problems that past revolutions did. We must understand what past revolutions that aimed at communism did right and what they did wrong. We must learn what laws govern social forces. However, it is not enough to look backward. We must also look at how the world has changed. The last great revolutionary breakthrough was the Maoist offensive in China. It reached its peak in the Cultural Revolution. That was almost a half century ago. It is important that we understand how the world has changed since then.
The Leading Light has the most advanced understanding of the past attempts to reach communism. The Leading Light has also advanced political economy to a whole new stage with its theory of global class analysis, new theories of exploitation and value, new proletarians, new socialism, and global people’s war. The Leading Light has expanded our understanding of how gender works on the global level. The Leading Light has also expanded our understanding of counter-revolution and revisionism. The Leading Light has also advanced our understanding epistemology and method. The Leading Light has also put forward a new vision of communism that corrects the mistakes of the past. The Leading Light’s internationalist practice, theory of New Power over the First World, and global people’s war also radically breaks from the past in many respects. There is simply no other paradigm from which to understand the world and change it. The Leading Light is the only communism today.
16. How big are you? What are your backgrounds? What do you look like? How do you work? What is your big plan?
We don’t reveal our numbers or capacities. If someone claims they represent the Leading Light, they probably do not. If someone claims to have insider information about the Leading Light, they are either lying or misinformed. We do not answer questions about our identities. There is no reason for anyone to know these things. People are curious. We understand. But revealing this information only helps the state. We operate in a clandestine manner. We infiltrate. We subvert. We build New Power. We are compartmentalized. Information is on a need to know basis. We do not wear our concrete plans on our sleeve. Study the science. Grasp deep politics. Understand what is said and unsaid.
We are white and black, First World and Third World, male and female, heterosexual and queer, old and young. We are everywhere. We are the ones who are leading humanity out of the darkness. We are making revolution for real. We are the pure hearts. No ego. We are disciplined, red soldiers of the Leading Light. Loyalty. Discipline. Intelligence. Science. Sacrifice.
17. What can I do to help?
Educate yourself. Study revolutionary science. Begin the process of ideological remolding. Familiarize yourself with Leading Light Communism. Drop your ego. We do not have time for it. Donate. Contact the Leading Light. Become a red soldier of the Leading Light. Follow the Leading Light. Become the Leading Light. We will find the role that best suits you.
You will have to prove yourself before you advance. This will take time. You will advance in stages. We are a mostly clandestine organization. Do not expect to understand everything or how we operate.
If you cannot be a Leading Light in this struggle, you can still help us. Donate to us. Donating should not be underestimated. It is what allows us to continue functioning. Promote our work and ideas far and wide.
Put Leading Light Communism in command. Be the Leading Light! Follow the Leading Light!
Crow posted:mustang19 posted:wow. epic trottery from the start. 0 stalins out of 5
My wit fails me. ed: By the way, "democratic" != "elections"i don't understand this critique, what are you saying here? that the 'dictatorship of the bourgeoisie' is not a useful analysis? that representatives and cadres weren't elected through a democratic process? Im from the hood stupid what kinda FAQs are these?
I don't even know enough about Marxism-Leninism to even respond so I'll just purge all references to "democracy".
But what about Bevanism and so forth, are those bad examples too?
As a matter of fact this isn't even a FAQ anymore, it's a political discussion, but that's fine too.
made some edits, hope u understnad, thanks
I can't show that to my parents.
mustang19 posted:I can't show that to my parents.
then your parents should be sent to the reeducatio ncamps
EmanuelaBrolandi posted:mustang19 posted:
I can't show that to my parents.
then your parents should be sent to the reeducatio ncamps
Say, waddaya think about Christian socialism?
Agnus_Dei posted:Howdy, friend! Welcome to our humble little corner of the Internet, where "the Kalishnikov is always right!"
Say, waddaya think about Christian socialism?
It was what I was raised to believe, sir.
jiroemon1897 posted:mustang19
Sorry did I violate Womyn's Anti-Mysogyny Regulatyn 50213?
mustang19 posted:It was what I was raised to believe, sir.
then your parents should be sent to the reeducatio ncamps
EmanuelaOrlandi posted:muSTINK19
Alright, back to democraticunderground.org for me.
mustang19 posted:EmanuelaOrlandi posted:muSTINK19
Alright, back to democraticunderground.org for me.
You guys have some really nice scripting. You probably have one of those transparent proxy detectors and a proxy banlist too. Most sites don't have that.
mustang19 posted:But what about Bevanism and so forth, are those bad examples too?
that's interesting, I don't know much about them besides the wikipedia, not my area of expertise, but it underlines the fundamental question of first world praxis, which is like, the hardest thing to delineate *flips hair*
mustang19 posted:You guys have some really nice scripting. You probably have one of those transparent proxy detectors and a proxy banlist too. Most sites don't have that.
We don't have that. We don't ban people at all.
mustang19 posted:mustang19 posted:EmanuelaOrlandi posted:muSTINK19
Alright, back to democraticunderground.org for me.
You guys have some really nice scripting. You probably have one of those transparent proxy detectors and a proxy banlist too. Most sites don't have that.
we don't ban people unless they like attack the site
that's interesting, I don't know much about them besides the wikipedia, not my area of expertise, but it underlines the fundamental question of first world praxis, which is like, the hardest thing to delineate *flips hair*
It's basically a state capitalist thing like the other guy said. There are literally no examples of socialism in a highly developed country on a large scale so I thought I would give it a try.
Crow posted:mustang19 posted:mustang19 posted:we don't ban people unless they like attack the site
Most sites ban for calling the mod an asshat. That's what usually gets me.
mustang19 posted:that's interesting, I don't know much about them besides the wikipedia, not my area of expertise, but it underlines the fundamental question of first world praxis, which is like, the hardest thing to delineate *flips hair*
It's basically a state capitalist thing like the other guy said. There are literally no examples of socialism in a highly developed country on a large scale so I thought I would give it a try.
Crow posted:mustang19 posted:mustang19 posted:we don't ban people unless they like attack the site
Most sites ban for calling the mod an asshat. That's what usually gets me.
I take that back. Shitty scripting, can't even quote properly.
EmanuelaOrlandi posted:using the word 'asshat' should be a bannable offense full stop, fwiw
Asshat
mustang19 posted:
The scripting is good we just have a steep learning curve on this forum bc we drink pubbie tears with our bacon wrapped hard-boiled eggs every morning
EmanuelaOrlandi posted:mustang19 posted:The scripting is good we just have a steep learning curve on this forum bc we drink pubbie tears with our bacon wrapped hard-boiled eggs every morning
How does that make a lick of sense?
mustang19 posted:How does that make a lick of sense?
Good question. I suggest you do your Raka'at a few times, get a good night sleep, and the answer should come to you before Fajr
EmanuelaOrlandi posted:mustang19 posted:How does that make a lick of sense?
Good question. I suggest you do your Raka'at a few times, get a good night sleep, and the answer should come to you before Fajr
How do guys come up with this shit? 
mustang19 posted:It's basically a state capitalist thing like the other guy said. There are literally no examples of socialism in a highly developed country on a large scale so I thought I would give it a try.
have you read Is The Red Flag Flying? or Farm to Factory? those are bandied about round here to better understand the conditions of development in the USSR, pretty useful reference points
but yeah the question for us is how to turn highly developed countries to socialism, which means working in situations that arent revolutionary, and so Bevanites and the like are kind of ambiguous to me since ideological and symbolic considerations count for a lot in such deadlocked zones (ie the 2008 USA election)
pretend I'm Alan Ford, you're the lady, and the Sunday Observer is doing you G-d d*mn Raka'at!
http://mccaine.org/2012/11/28/why-not-join-the-labour-party-a-personal-reply/
mccaine would also be the one to ask about Bevanites, he's into 20th century British leftist shit, our very own 'getfiscal' maybe too
Crow posted:mustang19 posted:It's basically a state capitalist thing like the other guy said. There are literally no examples of socialism in a highly developed country on a large scale so I thought I would give it a try.
have you read Is The Red Flag Flying? or Farm to Factory? those are bandied about round here to better understand the conditions of development in the USSR, pretty useful reference points
No, I literally don't even sit down in starbucks and pretend to read up on revolutionary theory yet.
but yeah the question for us is how to turn highly developed countries to socialism, which means working in situations that arent revolutionary, and so Bevanites and the like are kind of ambiguous to me since ideological and symbolic considerations count for a lot in such deadlocked zones (ie the 2008 USA election)
The obvious solution is to engineer a crisis through debt accumulation, bringing about Greek/perhipheral Europe semirevolutionary conditions until ultimate success.
Crow posted:this might be of use, it just got published today:
http://mccaine.org/2012/11/28/why-not-join-the-labour-party-a-personal-reply/
mccaine would also be the one to ask about Bevanites, he's into 20th century British leftist shit, our very own 'getfiscal' maybe too
Wow that's quite a dense read. I'll look into it.
mustang19 posted:Crow posted:this might be of use, it just got published today:
http://mccaine.org/2012/11/28/why-not-join-the-labour-party-a-personal-reply/
mccaine would also be the one to ask about Bevanites, he's into 20th century British leftist shit, our very own 'getfiscal' maybe tooWow that's quite a dense read. I'll look into it.
McCaine's (at first I thought you were talking about the John one) point is pretty interesting, basically that first world capitalism exploits the rest of the world, maoist internationalism, and all that. It follows that if these countries ever develop conditions in the first world will deteriorate. Otherwise he's going to need a rethink.
mustang19 posted:mustang19 posted:Crow posted:this might be of use, it just got published today:
http://mccaine.org/2012/11/28/why-not-join-the-labour-party-a-personal-reply/
mccaine would also be the one to ask about Bevanites, he's into 20th century British leftist shit, our very own 'getfiscal' maybe tooWow that's quite a dense read. I'll look into it.
McCaine's (at first I thought you were talking about the John one) point is pretty interesting, basically that first world capitalism exploits the rest of the world, maoist internationalism, and all that. It follows that if these countries ever develop conditions in the first world will deteriorate. Otherwise he's going to need a rethink.
we better develop them just to make sure he's wrong
stegosaurus posted:we better develop them just to make sure he's wrong
Of course we should develop the developing countries.
What do you think of first world tariffs? Should first would countries lower their tariffs to give the third world more exports?
mustang19 posted:mustang19 posted:Crow posted:this might be of use, it just got published today:
http://mccaine.org/2012/11/28/why-not-join-the-labour-party-a-personal-reply/
mccaine would also be the one to ask about Bevanites, he's into 20th century British leftist shit, our very own 'getfiscal' maybe tooWow that's quite a dense read. I'll look into it.
McCaine's (at first I thought you were talking about the John one) point is pretty interesting, basically that first world capitalism exploits the rest of the world, maoist internationalism, and all that. It follows that if these countries ever develop conditions in the first world will deteriorate. Otherwise he's going to need a rethink.
yes, but even then we don't know exactly what this 'deterioration' will look like, it seems to me it anticipates the old error of 'zero sum' relation, it may just mean that things will become more radically contingent and asymptotic, open to new outcomes and formations.
my intuition is that the birth of the western social-democratic welfare model had as much to do with the development of highly developed countries as the radical development of the periphery.