#1
Kurdt
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Unlike the Latin American left, the pathetic European version has lost all sense of what it means to do politics. It does not try to propose concrete solutions to problems, and is only able to take moral stances, in particular denouncing dictators and human rights violations in grandiloquent tones. The social democratic left follows the right with at best a few years delay and has no ideas of its own. The “radical” left often manages both to denounce Western governments in every possible way and to demand that those same governments intervene militarily around the globe to defend democracy. Their lack of political reflection makes them highly vulnerable to disinformation campaigns and to becoming passive cheerleaders of US-NATO wars. That left has no coherent program and would not know what to do even if a god put them into power.

Jean Bricmont
#2
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#3
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I let my leftist narratives overpower my sense of fundamental humanity, best shown recently by the anger I feel at Israel but not at the parties warring in Syria, even though the conflict is far deadlier.

#4
hi
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It is irredeemably silly when people point to the Palestinian struggle and ask why it garners so much attention and passion compared to the many struggles worldwide, whether in West Papua, in Syria, in Brazil or in Sudan. What such smug distraction misses is the essential role of the struggle against the settler logic. It is not a contingency of history that the US and Israel are so closely connected in alliance that there is ‘no daylight between them’. On the contrary. The hegemonic United States is a settler society and Israel is the only social formation of a similar type planted, in the decolonizing period of modern history, in the middle of the periphery (for want of a better term) and in a land of great religious significance at that. Therefore, much more than all the other such sites of struggle, Israel is a cornerstone of the political world-system. The struggle against Israel is therefore not just a question of the emancipation of the Palestinians, but it is a struggle against settler logic altogether, and through this, a struggle against the political manifestation of the current world order. This makes it a crucial site in the perpetuation of the imperialism of the West as well as in the ‘containment’ of global revolutionary and emancipatory struggles, and this gives it its particular significance.


http://mccaine.org/2012/11/17/israel-the-logic-of-a-settler-state/

#5
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HenryKrinkle posted:

It is irredeemably silly when people point to the Palestinian struggle and ask why it garners so much attention and passion compared to the many struggles worldwide, whether in West Papua, in Syria, in Brazil or in Sudan. What such smug distraction misses is the essential role of the struggle against the settler logic. It is not a contingency of history that the US and Israel are so closely connected in alliance that there is ‘no daylight between them’. On the contrary. The hegemonic United States is a settler society and Israel is the only social formation of a similar type planted, in the decolonizing period of modern history, in the middle of the periphery (for want of a better term) and in a land of great religious significance at that. Therefore, much more than all the other such sites of struggle, Israel is a cornerstone of the political world-system. The struggle against Israel is therefore not just a question of the emancipation of the Palestinians, but it is a struggle against settler logic altogether, and through this, a struggle against the political manifestation of the current world order. This makes it a crucial site in the perpetuation of the imperialism of the West as well as in the ‘containment’ of global revolutionary and emancipatory struggles, and this gives it its particular significance.

http://mccaine.org/2012/11/17/israel-the-logic-of-a-settler-state/



What?

i'm talking about human empathy, not "relevance to world-political systems" and right now many many times more people are dying in Syria than Gaza, and it upsets me that such narratives like the one you posted are making me lose sight of that

#6
Mike Nelson here.
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i don't think that's a well-written article and i argued against mccaine on facebook about it but to each their own
#7
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Yeah it’s a super warped version of oppression Olympics, like arguing that a few isolated incidents of “reverse racism” are more important than a genocide somewhere, because as the victims of the former are rich and white, they’re closer to the centres of power of the “political world-system”
#8
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getfiscal posted:

i don't think that's a well-written article and i argued against mccaine on facebook about it but to each their own



i don't think this bears mentioning

#9
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

I let my leftist narratives overpower my sense of fundamental humanity, best shown recently by the anger I feel at Israel but not at the parties warring in Syria, even though the conflict is far deadlier.



Yes, the deadly conflict instigated by NATO and its Gulf State allies is also really bad, great point

#10
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I have more sympathy for the West Papuans than the Palestinians, that’s for sure. The west Papuans don’t have 300 million other Melanesians living all around who could help them out for instance.
#11
Mike Nelson here.
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perhaps world-systems don't have cornerstones? :2bong:
#12
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Crow posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
I let my leftist narratives overpower my sense of fundamental humanity, best shown recently by the anger I feel at Israel but not at the parties warring in Syria, even though the conflict is far deadlier.




Yes, the deadly conflict instigated by NATO and its Gulf State allies is also really bad, great point



not "also really bad" but much worse

#13
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

Crow posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
I let my leftist narratives overpower my sense of fundamental humanity, best shown recently by the anger I feel at Israel but not at the parties warring in Syria, even though the conflict is far deadlier.




Yes, the deadly conflict instigated by NATO and its Gulf State allies is also really bad, great point

not "also really bad" but much worse



Gee whiz, I wonder if Israel has anything to do with it, I wish there was some way to have any idea what was going on in the Middle East or understand its history, oh well, time to pound my head into the car window

#14
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getfiscal posted:

perhaps world-systems don't have cornerstones? :2bong:



I really don't see how Israel would be one anyway, if we're doing a materialistic analysis. It doesn't have any great resources or anything.

The straights of Hormuz or Mallaca are world-system cornerstones, not some dusty excavation site of of assorted Semites kicking up a fuss about how their neighbours kid keeps kicking a soccer ball over their fence.

#15
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Crow posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
Crow posted:
Ironicwarcriminal posted:
I let my leftist narratives overpower my sense of fundamental humanity, best shown recently by the anger I feel at Israel but not at the parties warring in Syria, even though the conflict is far deadlier.




Yes, the deadly conflict instigated by NATO and its Gulf State allies is also really bad, great point
not "also really bad" but much worse


Gee whiz, I wonder if Israel has anything to do with it, I wish there was some way to have any idea what was going on in the Middle East or understand its history, oh well, time to pound my head into the car window



i'm sure they are engaged in some way yes, it also seems unlikely a country of 6 million people is the primary reason for chaos and war in a large area of the planet.

#16
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

getfiscal posted:

perhaps world-systems don't have cornerstones? :2bong:

I really don't see how Israel would be one anyway, if we're doing a materialistic analysis. It doesn't have any great resources or anything.

The straights of Hormuz or Mallaca are world-system cornerstones, not some dusty excavation site of of assorted Semites kicking up a fuss about how their neighbours kid keeps kicking a soccer ball over their fence.



#17
Post rating: +

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

getfiscal posted:

perhaps world-systems don't have cornerstones? :2bong:

I really don't see how Israel would be one anyway, if we're doing a materialistic analysis. It doesn't have any great resources or anything.

The straights of Hormuz or Mallaca are world-system cornerstones, not some dusty excavation site of of assorted Semites kicking up a fuss about how their neighbours kid keeps kicking a soccer ball over their fence.



Damn I never thought that world-system cornerstones were directly related to an amateur's tenuous grasp of geography, wish there was some kind of theory or scholarship i could turn to, oh well

anyway, here's something for nonpsychopaths:

#18
Mike Nelson here.
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crow, you are young, and headstrong, but you should respect your elders.
#19
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i'm putting a foot in your mouth so you don't have to, saving you some dignity, but only for how long..?. Imagine: a man putting his foot into his own mouth, forever
#20
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Crow posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
getfiscal posted:
perhaps world-systems don't have cornerstones? :2bong:
I really don't see how Israel would be one anyway, if we're doing a materialistic analysis. It doesn't have any great resources or anything.

The straights of Hormuz or Mallaca are world-system cornerstones, not some dusty excavation site of of assorted Semites kicking up a fuss about how their neighbours kid keeps kicking a soccer ball over their fence.


Damn I never thought that world-system cornerstones were directly related to an amateur's tenuous grasp of geography, wish there was some kind of theory or scholarship i could turn to, oh well

anyway, here's something for nonpsychopaths:



yeah and huge airstrikes have been happening against cities and towns in Syria for quite a while now too

#21
Mike Nelson here.
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Crow posted:

i'm putting a foot in your mouth so you don't have to, saving you some dignity, but only for how long..?. Imagine: a man putting his foot into his own mouth, forever

"We come nearest to the great when we are great in humility."
- Rabindranath Tagore

just some thoughts....

#22
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I mean 300,000 muslims have been displaced in one conflict since June, with many killed, and we never hear anything about it
#23
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#24
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

I mean 300,000 muslims have been displaced in one conflict since June, with many killed, and we never hear anything about it



We Never Hear Anything ABout Crimes and Fuck Up Shit In Syria ! !

#25
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

Crow posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
I let my leftist narratives overpower my sense of fundamental humanity, best shown recently by the anger I feel at Israel but not at the parties warring in Syria, even though the conflict is far deadlier.




Yes, the deadly conflict instigated by NATO and its Gulf State allies is also really bad, great point

not "also really bad" but much worse




so sad.. army against NATO fund rebel.. i am crieing for army fight NATO rebel

mostly unarmed paramilitary, occupied peoples for ~60 yr being bomb by vast superior army/air force/navy ?? no tear for you!

#26
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prikryl posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
I mean 300,000 muslims have been displaced in one conflict since June, with many killed, and we never hear anything about it


We Never Hear Anything ABout Crimes and Fuck Up Shit In Syria ! !



i was talking about the Rohingya in Burma doofus

#27
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

prikryl posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
I mean 300,000 muslims have been displaced in one conflict since June, with many killed, and we never hear anything about it


We Never Hear Anything ABout Crimes and Fuck Up Shit In Syria ! !

i was talking about the Rohingya in Burma doofus



WE never hear about bad stuff in Myanmar !! !

#28
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prikryl posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
Crow posted:
Ironicwarcriminal posted:
I let my leftist narratives overpower my sense of fundamental humanity, best shown recently by the anger I feel at Israel but not at the parties warring in Syria, even though the conflict is far deadlier.




Yes, the deadly conflict instigated by NATO and its Gulf State allies is also really bad, great point
not "also really bad" but much worse



so sad.. army against NATO fund rebel.. i am crieing for army fight NATO rebel

mostly unarmed paramilitary, occupied peoples for ~60 yr being bomb by vast superior army/air force/navy ?? no tear for you!



we all bleed the same blood. Many good people have died in Syria, men, woman or children...of any political allegiance or indeed no allegiance at all

#29
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ok
#30
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prikryl posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
prikryl posted:
Ironicwarcriminal posted:
I mean 300,000 muslims have been displaced in one conflict since June, with many killed, and we never hear anything about it


We Never Hear Anything ABout Crimes and Fuck Up Shit In Syria ! !
i was talking about the Rohingya in Burma doofus


WE never hear about bad stuff in Myanmar !! !



not really no, especially not compared to Palestine

#31
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I just dont under stand why no one says how bad things are in Syria or Burma or Congo for example, I just dont get why people dont say that. Frankly palestinian are SCUM!!! i hate palesgtin e child
#32
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Oppression Olympics
#33
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seriously you're trash, if you care about the suffering of others so much, go post a thread about it, if you couldn't care less (you don't) then shut up. Pretty simple. Dont have to be SICK paelstine WHINER to finger it out
#34
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prikryl posted:

ok



See this is how this ties into leftist flagellation……framing things in your mind about which grouping of people deserve death or deserve to be labelled heroes….i do the same thing and I think it dulls one’s humanity. Like your glib sarcastic remark about “army fight NATO der der” etc.

People are dying: they are being crushed under rubble and having their flesh torn by bullets and shrapnel. This is a collective failure of the human spirit and perhaps we should see it as such rather than cheering one grim reaper over his clone because you prefer the shade of black on his cloak.

#35
Post rating: +

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

prikryl posted:

ok

See this is how this ties into leftist flagellation……framing things in your mind about which grouping of people deserve death or deserve to be labelled heroes….i do the same thing and I think it dulls one’s humanity. Like your glib sarcastic remark about “army fight NATO der der” etc.

People are dying: they are being crushed under rubble and having their flesh torn by bullets and shrapnel. This is a collective failure of the human spirit and perhaps we should see it as such rather than cheering one grim reaper over his clone because you prefer the shade of black on his cloak.


excellent projection, 5/5

#36
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Crow posted:

I just dont under stand why no one says how bad things are in Syria or Burma or Congo for example, I just dont get why people dont say that. Frankly palestinian are SCUM!!! i hate palesgtin e child



my heart weeps for those Palestinians suffering in Gaza, i'm not sure where you got that from

#37
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thx for the insight, never thouhggt about it this way!
#38
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

Crow posted:

I just dont under stand why no one says how bad things are in Syria or Burma or Congo for example, I just dont get why people dont say that. Frankly palestinian are SCUM!!! i hate palesgtin e child

my heart weeps for those Palestinians suffering in Gaza, i'm not sure where you got that from



Ironicwarcriminal posted:

I have more sympathy for the West Papuans than the Palestinians, that’s for sure. The west Papuans don’t have 300 million other Melanesians living all around who could help them out for instance.

#39
Mike Nelson here.
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just a song i'm thinking about....



we've got to work together.... love each other... or the rhizzone won't work. earth won't work.
#40
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getfiscal posted:

just a song i'm thinking about....



we've got to work together.... love each other... or the rhizzone won't work. earth won't work.