pescalune
pescalune
Ireland
Post rating:
+++++
I was bored this evening after work and thought I may as well put down my rambling thoughts on the situation. I'd be curious to know how much you Yanks have heard about the whole affair.
The Free State has it's referendum to Repeal the 8th Amendment coming up this Friday. As I'm sure many know Ireland has some of the most restrictive abortion laws in the world, with it only being acceptable in circumstances where the life of the mother is at risk. This is a result of the 8th amendment to the Constitution, which was introduced by popular referendum in 1983 with Catholic Church and State backing. It guarantees the right to life of the unborn, to an equal extent to that of the mother. There have been numerous cases of women dying as a result of this amendment due to lack of care being given, the most infamous being the X Case and Savita Halappanavar in 2012, which in many ways kicked the current movement off. The consequences of the 8th aren't merely related to terminations. Ireland has one of the highest rates of C-Sections in the world due to the fact that Doctor's would rather operate than allow the slightest risk to the child, and of course the mother's consent is not relevant. Similarly pregnant women with cancer have been refused chemotherapy due to risk to the child. Even in cases where the foetus is non-viable, or is absolutely certain to die due to abnormalities soon after birth, abortion is forbidden. If one wishes to see the absolute hypocrisy of the Irish people, one need only look at the fact that the 8th amendment was followed by the 13th amendment, which allows Irish pregnant women to travel abroad. An average of 9 women a day travel to England for terminations. These are of course the women who have the ability and the funds to do so.
Despite the endless footdragging by Establishment Ireland and the cowardice of the major political parties, including Sinn Fein, there was enough of a upsurge in support through marches, protests and pressure on the government these past two years that they inevitably allowed a referendum to take place, as well as promising to legislate for Abortion on demand up till 12 weeks. The referendum is solely to remove the 8th amendment from our constitution so that legislation can be passed in the Dail (Parliament), with YES being to remove. Our heroic Taoiseach (PM) Leo Varadkar and most of the traditionally socially conservative Fine Gael party even came out in support of the campaign in a wise oppurtunistic move, before even Sinn Fein jumped aboard the bandwagon (they hemmed and hawed largely so as to not alienate their reactionary nationalist members, particularly those in Northern Ireland). The equally traditionally conservative opposition, Fianna Fail, was majority against Repeal, the only party in that camp. The minor parties and socailists are all in favour: People Before Profit (Cliffite Trots), Solidarity (Trots), Greens, Social Democrats, Communist Party of Ireland, Worker's Party. Afaik the only Socialist party that is not actively campaigning for a Yes vote is the Irish Republican Socialist Party for reasons I cannot determine, and I'm not 100% on Saoradh either.
The official campaign, Together for Yes, despite being dominated by ostensible radicals and "anarcha-feminists", is incredibly liberal and middle class. The leadership which was at least superficially radical before the referendum was called took a right-ward turn afterwards. Fortunately it seems it will pass (last poll suggested 44% YES to 32% NO) despite their best efforts to alienate working class voters. They decided their campaign strategy in large part based on a few focus groups done by some marketing firm, which also incidentally managed to use up a huge chunk of their budget. Their findings were apparently that "undecideds" (not broken down by class, area or gender) don't like the words "choice", "campaign" or "bodily autonomy", and that people "just don't care" about issues such as trans healthcare, or the treatment of migrant and asylum seeking women which intersect or are directly relevant to the issue. Many of the most infamous consequences of the 8th Amendment have been the suffering and deaths of non-white Irish women, notably those stuck in the barbaric system of Direct Provision in which Ireland keeps it's refugees and asylum seekers. Despite these being the women who genuinely cannot either afford or legally be allowed to leave the country to seek an abortion, it's been largely avoided so as to not upset the broader racist society.
Class of course receives the occasional mention by the campaign, but is mostly relegated to the various Left parties to argue for in their own parallel campaigns or on the doors. The posters and marketing have been geared directly at not upsetting the mythical undecided, and thus have ended up not meaning particularly anything at all. The official Yes campaign slogan? "Sometimes A Private Matter Needs Public Support". Mealy-mouthed bullshit compared to the No campaigns "Abortion Kills Babies". Naturally the most likely answer is that it was what was least offensive to bourgeois and petit-bourgeois liberal elites who are well represented in the campaign, as well as the Centre-Right Party in government. This past week it was revealed there was an enormous fuckup with cervical cancer tests by our health service which has produced an outcry. Despite this the Fine Gael Health Minister responsible, Simon Harris, is representing the Yes Campaign live on State television tomorrow. Idiocy like this is why I encounter working class people who are voting No out of anti-government sentiment. The notion that "we can't let the Government decide what we do with our bodies" is an unfortunately common one. The No side have their share of fuck ups too of course, the usual ghoulishness associated with showing pictures of dead fully grown babies and outright lies. Though the No campaign have also been quite clever in exploiting that anti-government sentiment among working class voters. They talk of the need to "Join the Rebellion", the fascist National Party use images of the heroes of 1916 laid over quotes from the constitution, one of the many no doubt Yankee lead front groups is called PeoplePower.ie.
This brings me onto the next important point: foreign interference by American and British conservatives. Despite having a fraction of the number of campaigners and activists, and no backing from any significant political party or even really the Catholic Church, the No campaign manage to produce more posters and more online advertising by far, much of it funneled by ultra-conservative organisations such as the Iona Institute, or the quasi-fascist Youth Defence. Google, following revelations that many if not most of the Facebook pages related to the No campaign were in fact run by people outside of Ireland, decided to ban all advertising related to the referendum, which was of course vigorously protested by the No side and a huge boost for us. Because Ireland is a moronic country with moronic laws, there's no limit whatsoever on how many posters can clog up the streets of Dublin, with 6 or 7 posters sometime adorning a single pole. American and British churches have also paid for hotels and flights so that bright young eager kids can come over here and campaign for a No. During the last March for Life which they hold annually it was inescapable that the crowd was chockful of people flown in from the US, England and bused down from Northern Ireland to inflate numbers. Though what really matters is that the Yes campaign has managed to knock on most of the doors in Ireland in the past couple of months, and the polls have consistently shown at least a 10 point lead over the Pro-Life campaign. We in fact had a greater lead a couple of months ago, whether that can be attributed beyond a doubt to the weak bourgeois messaging of the Official Yes Campaign I'm not sure. This referendum may well be the final death throes of Political Catholicism as a force in this country, though I'm sure many would say it is already dead and long ago replaced with insidious neoliberal capitalism as an ideology. It's not impossible that the No vote could win, and all the ingredients are there for a backlash against Dublin elites, but it doesn't seem to likely at this stage.
What does this all mean for Socialism in this country? All the significant Socialist parties of any stripe were largely subsumed into the larger campaign. They no doubt gained a few members in the process but nothing earthshaking, though Solidarity have probably done particularly well for themselves. The adoption of surface-level radicalism by really quite liberal groups and individuals within the Together for Yes campaign can't help to develop a warped sense of what radical politics is, and these groups have consistently worked to push the Trots, MLs and Republicans to the side. While Left TDs (Members of Parliament) in the Dail like Brid Smith and Ruth Coppinger were valued early in the campaign they're now seen as an impediment to collaboration with the Government. And on the subject of Republicanism, the referendum just highlights how weak it's become. Sinn Fein continue their wholesale embrace of bourgeois liberalism, many of the minor groups hardly put any effort into the campaign and certainly are hardly growing. One can at least see a positive in that for the first time in a long time Ireland now has a large number of young people and particularly women interested in politics, even if that often manifests itself in weak quasi-anarchist or liberal ways. The majority of single issue Repealers will obviously drift away quickly. Socialism in Ireland has been weak for essentially the last century or so, and it's only with the Water Protests of 2015 and the movement against Austerity that you see any serious mass mobilisation of working, mostly older, people. Most of the attempts to seriously couple Socialism with Irish Republicanism have been unsuccessful. It seems to me that Socialists in Ireland can look forward to more of the same slow slog of building up membership in dribs and drabs, with the occasional minor success, though at least there's the occasional young woman thrown in now.
The Free State has it's referendum to Repeal the 8th Amendment coming up this Friday. As I'm sure many know Ireland has some of the most restrictive abortion laws in the world, with it only being acceptable in circumstances where the life of the mother is at risk. This is a result of the 8th amendment to the Constitution, which was introduced by popular referendum in 1983 with Catholic Church and State backing. It guarantees the right to life of the unborn, to an equal extent to that of the mother. There have been numerous cases of women dying as a result of this amendment due to lack of care being given, the most infamous being the X Case and Savita Halappanavar in 2012, which in many ways kicked the current movement off. The consequences of the 8th aren't merely related to terminations. Ireland has one of the highest rates of C-Sections in the world due to the fact that Doctor's would rather operate than allow the slightest risk to the child, and of course the mother's consent is not relevant. Similarly pregnant women with cancer have been refused chemotherapy due to risk to the child. Even in cases where the foetus is non-viable, or is absolutely certain to die due to abnormalities soon after birth, abortion is forbidden. If one wishes to see the absolute hypocrisy of the Irish people, one need only look at the fact that the 8th amendment was followed by the 13th amendment, which allows Irish pregnant women to travel abroad. An average of 9 women a day travel to England for terminations. These are of course the women who have the ability and the funds to do so.
Despite the endless footdragging by Establishment Ireland and the cowardice of the major political parties, including Sinn Fein, there was enough of a upsurge in support through marches, protests and pressure on the government these past two years that they inevitably allowed a referendum to take place, as well as promising to legislate for Abortion on demand up till 12 weeks. The referendum is solely to remove the 8th amendment from our constitution so that legislation can be passed in the Dail (Parliament), with YES being to remove. Our heroic Taoiseach (PM) Leo Varadkar and most of the traditionally socially conservative Fine Gael party even came out in support of the campaign in a wise oppurtunistic move, before even Sinn Fein jumped aboard the bandwagon (they hemmed and hawed largely so as to not alienate their reactionary nationalist members, particularly those in Northern Ireland). The equally traditionally conservative opposition, Fianna Fail, was majority against Repeal, the only party in that camp. The minor parties and socailists are all in favour: People Before Profit (Cliffite Trots), Solidarity (Trots), Greens, Social Democrats, Communist Party of Ireland, Worker's Party. Afaik the only Socialist party that is not actively campaigning for a Yes vote is the Irish Republican Socialist Party for reasons I cannot determine, and I'm not 100% on Saoradh either.
The official campaign, Together for Yes, despite being dominated by ostensible radicals and "anarcha-feminists", is incredibly liberal and middle class. The leadership which was at least superficially radical before the referendum was called took a right-ward turn afterwards. Fortunately it seems it will pass (last poll suggested 44% YES to 32% NO) despite their best efforts to alienate working class voters. They decided their campaign strategy in large part based on a few focus groups done by some marketing firm, which also incidentally managed to use up a huge chunk of their budget. Their findings were apparently that "undecideds" (not broken down by class, area or gender) don't like the words "choice", "campaign" or "bodily autonomy", and that people "just don't care" about issues such as trans healthcare, or the treatment of migrant and asylum seeking women which intersect or are directly relevant to the issue. Many of the most infamous consequences of the 8th Amendment have been the suffering and deaths of non-white Irish women, notably those stuck in the barbaric system of Direct Provision in which Ireland keeps it's refugees and asylum seekers. Despite these being the women who genuinely cannot either afford or legally be allowed to leave the country to seek an abortion, it's been largely avoided so as to not upset the broader racist society.
Class of course receives the occasional mention by the campaign, but is mostly relegated to the various Left parties to argue for in their own parallel campaigns or on the doors. The posters and marketing have been geared directly at not upsetting the mythical undecided, and thus have ended up not meaning particularly anything at all. The official Yes campaign slogan? "Sometimes A Private Matter Needs Public Support". Mealy-mouthed bullshit compared to the No campaigns "Abortion Kills Babies". Naturally the most likely answer is that it was what was least offensive to bourgeois and petit-bourgeois liberal elites who are well represented in the campaign, as well as the Centre-Right Party in government. This past week it was revealed there was an enormous fuckup with cervical cancer tests by our health service which has produced an outcry. Despite this the Fine Gael Health Minister responsible, Simon Harris, is representing the Yes Campaign live on State television tomorrow. Idiocy like this is why I encounter working class people who are voting No out of anti-government sentiment. The notion that "we can't let the Government decide what we do with our bodies" is an unfortunately common one. The No side have their share of fuck ups too of course, the usual ghoulishness associated with showing pictures of dead fully grown babies and outright lies. Though the No campaign have also been quite clever in exploiting that anti-government sentiment among working class voters. They talk of the need to "Join the Rebellion", the fascist National Party use images of the heroes of 1916 laid over quotes from the constitution, one of the many no doubt Yankee lead front groups is called PeoplePower.ie.
This brings me onto the next important point: foreign interference by American and British conservatives. Despite having a fraction of the number of campaigners and activists, and no backing from any significant political party or even really the Catholic Church, the No campaign manage to produce more posters and more online advertising by far, much of it funneled by ultra-conservative organisations such as the Iona Institute, or the quasi-fascist Youth Defence. Google, following revelations that many if not most of the Facebook pages related to the No campaign were in fact run by people outside of Ireland, decided to ban all advertising related to the referendum, which was of course vigorously protested by the No side and a huge boost for us. Because Ireland is a moronic country with moronic laws, there's no limit whatsoever on how many posters can clog up the streets of Dublin, with 6 or 7 posters sometime adorning a single pole. American and British churches have also paid for hotels and flights so that bright young eager kids can come over here and campaign for a No. During the last March for Life which they hold annually it was inescapable that the crowd was chockful of people flown in from the US, England and bused down from Northern Ireland to inflate numbers. Though what really matters is that the Yes campaign has managed to knock on most of the doors in Ireland in the past couple of months, and the polls have consistently shown at least a 10 point lead over the Pro-Life campaign. We in fact had a greater lead a couple of months ago, whether that can be attributed beyond a doubt to the weak bourgeois messaging of the Official Yes Campaign I'm not sure. This referendum may well be the final death throes of Political Catholicism as a force in this country, though I'm sure many would say it is already dead and long ago replaced with insidious neoliberal capitalism as an ideology. It's not impossible that the No vote could win, and all the ingredients are there for a backlash against Dublin elites, but it doesn't seem to likely at this stage.
What does this all mean for Socialism in this country? All the significant Socialist parties of any stripe were largely subsumed into the larger campaign. They no doubt gained a few members in the process but nothing earthshaking, though Solidarity have probably done particularly well for themselves. The adoption of surface-level radicalism by really quite liberal groups and individuals within the Together for Yes campaign can't help to develop a warped sense of what radical politics is, and these groups have consistently worked to push the Trots, MLs and Republicans to the side. While Left TDs (Members of Parliament) in the Dail like Brid Smith and Ruth Coppinger were valued early in the campaign they're now seen as an impediment to collaboration with the Government. And on the subject of Republicanism, the referendum just highlights how weak it's become. Sinn Fein continue their wholesale embrace of bourgeois liberalism, many of the minor groups hardly put any effort into the campaign and certainly are hardly growing. One can at least see a positive in that for the first time in a long time Ireland now has a large number of young people and particularly women interested in politics, even if that often manifests itself in weak quasi-anarchist or liberal ways. The majority of single issue Repealers will obviously drift away quickly. Socialism in Ireland has been weak for essentially the last century or so, and it's only with the Water Protests of 2015 and the movement against Austerity that you see any serious mass mobilisation of working, mostly older, people. Most of the attempts to seriously couple Socialism with Irish Republicanism have been unsuccessful. It seems to me that Socialists in Ireland can look forward to more of the same slow slog of building up membership in dribs and drabs, with the occasional minor success, though at least there's the occasional young woman thrown in now.
Edited by pescalune ()
Cuntessa_Markievicz
Cuntessa_Markievicz
sOmEwHeRe OvEr ThE rAiNbOw
Post rating:
+
Hi we're not all yanks here.
I have many of my own views in terms of how liberal feminism has turned the issue of abortion access into this debate of "good" abortions versus "bad abortions", 2nd wave feminists are well documented about how they gave their full support to women that needed care and didn't impose their own bullshit liberal societal agenda on women in need. For example, a lot with the Together for Yes campaign has been focusing on fatal fetal abnormalities, which is necessary of course but the vast majority of these couples have been white and middle class.
The vast majority of women who are subjected to travel are not all the same and have wanted pregnancies. Something that has been concerning me in recent years is the public opinion of Travellers and in particular Traveller women in Ireland and the UK.
Traveller families tend to have much shorter life expectancy compared to the rest of the population but really high birth rates, and I have heard of stories of Traveller women having had hysterectomy's without them consenting to it and them only finding out years later over them wondering if they have already gone through the menopause at 30 when they were last pregnant at 27..... only for their GP to explain that they had a hysterectomy and how it was necessary even though this GP has no evidence to back this up. Or Traveller women moving to the UK and from Ireland and enquiring with the NHS GP why they can't get pregnant anymore even though their mother went through the change when she was 15 years older than you are now.
Of course in Middle-class, middle Ireland stories like these arent known cause hell, no one gives a fuck about Travellers let alone the medical malpractice they experience.
But I wouldn't be too dismissive of working class areas voting no, like the marriage referendum, there was kinda this working class urban revolt? Working class areas embracing change faster, campaigners claim but i find such analysis so fucking dismissive and condescending. Although tbh i have more faith in urban areas voting yes than rural areas but thats just how the cookie is gonna crumble. I am so sick of how much pandering to the "middle Ireland" that orcatrates itself in Irish politics.
Migrant women are 40% of all maternal deaths in Ireland, it is primarily women or colour and women not from the EU that get the worst treatment, heck the fucking French embassy has quietly intervened in several cases in Ireland privately for women to access abortion care back in France.
But yeah the idea of how abortion is a class issue doesn't seem to have been picked by the Blueshirts and their cousins Fianna Fail, who are now all pro choice cause its the "compassionate" thing to do, even though there are dozens of rumours of various TD, from both Fine Gael and Finna Fail of giving women in need money to travel cause it was their niece or a prolific constituents daughter needed help, all while publically saying very degrading anti-choice things. Sure it is now "compassionate" but there was 0 compassion for Ms X, Ms Y, Ms D.....
I am also quite disappointed with all these pop up pro-choice diaspora groups that have developed because again they seem to be completely unaware of how much of a class issue abortion and children are. And they just are so Middle class and its so annoying cause working-class Irish people also emigrate??? A lot of Irish single mothers moved to the UK to escape Magdalene Laundries??? The history of working class irish people all across the UK is very well documented like.....
Like its great that Diane-Seosaimhín who went to private schools and played Hockey and studied Business and French at Trinity now lives in London making £40,000 a year aged 28 working for some renting start up, is finally woke and thinks that abortion should be a thing in Ireland! But she hasn't yet developed a consciousness for the working classes in Ireland and still thinks everyone involved with the Lidl heist during Storm Emma should serve prison time. And her boyfriend Fiacra does work for a mega bank and hes still kinda racist.... And she has just suddenly realised that all her friends are white and come from similar backgrounds to her....
And she is still conflicted about with seeing poor teen single mothers in public and even though she tries to not judge them or assume their gonna cause a fight on her bus/tube she still does. Guess her Lena Dunham/Hilary Clinton feminism can't sort out everything yet!
Ireland and Irish people amongst Irish Americans are this super duper hard working and ultimate working class heros who have suffered so much so its just so funny to me because Irish middle class liberals have ruined so much of Irish working-class life for me lol.
And as for Irish Republicans, the only ones that seem in person anyway class focused and willing to dismantle all this fucking liberal pandering bullshit within Irish politics are Éirígí but I wonder if they're gonna be dog pilled against for their views on sex work which have yet to be clarified. But anyway......
I have many of my own views in terms of how liberal feminism has turned the issue of abortion access into this debate of "good" abortions versus "bad abortions", 2nd wave feminists are well documented about how they gave their full support to women that needed care and didn't impose their own bullshit liberal societal agenda on women in need. For example, a lot with the Together for Yes campaign has been focusing on fatal fetal abnormalities, which is necessary of course but the vast majority of these couples have been white and middle class.
The vast majority of women who are subjected to travel are not all the same and have wanted pregnancies. Something that has been concerning me in recent years is the public opinion of Travellers and in particular Traveller women in Ireland and the UK.
Traveller families tend to have much shorter life expectancy compared to the rest of the population but really high birth rates, and I have heard of stories of Traveller women having had hysterectomy's without them consenting to it and them only finding out years later over them wondering if they have already gone through the menopause at 30 when they were last pregnant at 27..... only for their GP to explain that they had a hysterectomy and how it was necessary even though this GP has no evidence to back this up. Or Traveller women moving to the UK and from Ireland and enquiring with the NHS GP why they can't get pregnant anymore even though their mother went through the change when she was 15 years older than you are now.
Of course in Middle-class, middle Ireland stories like these arent known cause hell, no one gives a fuck about Travellers let alone the medical malpractice they experience.
But I wouldn't be too dismissive of working class areas voting no, like the marriage referendum, there was kinda this working class urban revolt? Working class areas embracing change faster, campaigners claim but i find such analysis so fucking dismissive and condescending. Although tbh i have more faith in urban areas voting yes than rural areas but thats just how the cookie is gonna crumble. I am so sick of how much pandering to the "middle Ireland" that orcatrates itself in Irish politics.
Migrant women are 40% of all maternal deaths in Ireland, it is primarily women or colour and women not from the EU that get the worst treatment, heck the fucking French embassy has quietly intervened in several cases in Ireland privately for women to access abortion care back in France.
But yeah the idea of how abortion is a class issue doesn't seem to have been picked by the Blueshirts and their cousins Fianna Fail, who are now all pro choice cause its the "compassionate" thing to do, even though there are dozens of rumours of various TD, from both Fine Gael and Finna Fail of giving women in need money to travel cause it was their niece or a prolific constituents daughter needed help, all while publically saying very degrading anti-choice things. Sure it is now "compassionate" but there was 0 compassion for Ms X, Ms Y, Ms D.....
I am also quite disappointed with all these pop up pro-choice diaspora groups that have developed because again they seem to be completely unaware of how much of a class issue abortion and children are. And they just are so Middle class and its so annoying cause working-class Irish people also emigrate??? A lot of Irish single mothers moved to the UK to escape Magdalene Laundries??? The history of working class irish people all across the UK is very well documented like.....
Like its great that Diane-Seosaimhín who went to private schools and played Hockey and studied Business and French at Trinity now lives in London making £40,000 a year aged 28 working for some renting start up, is finally woke and thinks that abortion should be a thing in Ireland! But she hasn't yet developed a consciousness for the working classes in Ireland and still thinks everyone involved with the Lidl heist during Storm Emma should serve prison time. And her boyfriend Fiacra does work for a mega bank and hes still kinda racist.... And she has just suddenly realised that all her friends are white and come from similar backgrounds to her....
And she is still conflicted about with seeing poor teen single mothers in public and even though she tries to not judge them or assume their gonna cause a fight on her bus/tube she still does. Guess her Lena Dunham/Hilary Clinton feminism can't sort out everything yet!
Ireland and Irish people amongst Irish Americans are this super duper hard working and ultimate working class heros who have suffered so much so its just so funny to me because Irish middle class liberals have ruined so much of Irish working-class life for me lol.
And as for Irish Republicans, the only ones that seem in person anyway class focused and willing to dismantle all this fucking liberal pandering bullshit within Irish politics are Éirígí but I wonder if they're gonna be dog pilled against for their views on sex work which have yet to be clarified. But anyway......
overfire
overfire
Post rating:
+
all i know is all the forced birth propaganda on every lampost whenever i leave the house reminding me that i am a member of the sex caste and the handmaid's tale is a documentary has convinced me that we should have abortion up to the 400th trimester and abort half of this hell country
pescalune
pescalune
Ireland
Post rating:
+
Ah good! I knew there was a couple of Brits, didn't know there were some Irish folks. A lot of good points there I didn't touch on most. Honestly there's just so many problems with the campaign that it's difficult to summarise. There's definitely a hell of a lot of condenscencion towards working class people in Dublin on the subject, even though in my experience of doing stalls and knocking on doors, working class people were far more open to dialogue, far more likely to speak their minds and often openly disgusted with the repressive legacy of the 8th and Catholicism in this country. Just a few days ago I had an old working class man in tears telling me about how the Priest used to be allowed into his bedroom by his parents. And yet the liberal middle class feminists assume their own milieu is automatically the most enlightened, and that poisons so much of the rest of their politics. And because it is costless to them, they're glad to praise the superficially liberal change of hearts the Blueshirts have gone through, because they don't give a shit about the harm they've caused to working class people so long as the sole issue they can bring themselves to care about goes through.
The focus on foetal abnormality and the like has certainly been overblown. It seems to dominate a lot of the video material in particular that they put out.
I think it was quite telling that the response by many upon realising John Connors was a supporter of the No campaign recently was to immediately call him a whiny traveller and denigrate the community. Irish people are absolutely convinced that they aren't racist but the evidence is plain as day. And the conditions a lot of travellers and especially traveller women live in are often wretched. I think Eileen Flynn has done great work in talking about the particular issues traveller women face.
Speaking as a former member of the middle class Irish Diaspora I would say we are most certainly wretched people who I have little hope for.
Eirigi are pretty active in my area and they do good work for sure. I have no clue what their perspective on sex work is. I know ROSA has been getting serious flack for perceived SWERF tendencies, though I'm not sure how founded those are. Certainly I think the Nordic Model pushed by Solidarity is a poor idea, not sure how much that carries over into ROSA.
As for the LIDL robbery: LEGENDS, FOOD TO THE PEOPLE
The focus on foetal abnormality and the like has certainly been overblown. It seems to dominate a lot of the video material in particular that they put out.
I think it was quite telling that the response by many upon realising John Connors was a supporter of the No campaign recently was to immediately call him a whiny traveller and denigrate the community. Irish people are absolutely convinced that they aren't racist but the evidence is plain as day. And the conditions a lot of travellers and especially traveller women live in are often wretched. I think Eileen Flynn has done great work in talking about the particular issues traveller women face.
Speaking as a former member of the middle class Irish Diaspora I would say we are most certainly wretched people who I have little hope for.
Eirigi are pretty active in my area and they do good work for sure. I have no clue what their perspective on sex work is. I know ROSA has been getting serious flack for perceived SWERF tendencies, though I'm not sure how founded those are. Certainly I think the Nordic Model pushed by Solidarity is a poor idea, not sure how much that carries over into ROSA.
As for the LIDL robbery: LEGENDS, FOOD TO THE PEOPLE
overfire
overfire
Post rating:
+
the yes campaign has definitely been dominated by liberal elements, inevitable in the broad church which is Together for Yes. the No campaign posters and message punch you in the face-babies will die! License to kill!-and the yes side is mealy-mouthed and pathetic. "For women's health!" The videos by the yes campaign can't even use the word abortion. we act like it's a dirty word when it's what we're fighting to secure. i understand why but the echoes of that shame and the stranglehold of the Catholic church make my blood boil.
Edit-im a Brit living in ireland
Edit 2-swerf is a dumb phrase but I don't want to derail the abortion train
Edit-im a Brit living in ireland
Edit 2-swerf is a dumb phrase but I don't want to derail the abortion train
Edited by overfire ()
pescalune
pescalune
Ireland
Post rating:
~
It was inevitable that they'd dominate yes. Though the extent to which they've watered down even the originally mildly liberal message is impressive. The original posters didn't even fucking use the word Repeal! A visitor who only saw most of the Yes posters could be forgiven for having no idea whatsoever what the referendum was even about. We spend time praising pro-choice Catholics after all the damage the Church has done, and reassuring people that despising 90% of women who seek abortions is fine as long as they vote Yes. Hell, even the word Choice, as reliable a liberal mainstay as there ever has been, is considered too controversial.
I understand SWERF is controversial, was merely repeating the accusation. Not really sure what to think of the whole thing tbh, other than the worship of sex work being a bizarre thing on the Left.
I understand SWERF is controversial, was merely repeating the accusation. Not really sure what to think of the whole thing tbh, other than the worship of sex work being a bizarre thing on the Left.
overfire
overfire
Post rating:
+
For the aforementioned Yanks watching we are currently hosting hundreds of your most swivel-eyed loons who have flown in to canvas for no, and see no irony at all in the fact that they are trying to influence voting in a foreign country. They've been pouring fucktonnes of money in too which is why No posters outnumber Yes posters about 2:1 in Dublin and even more so elsewhere.
Cuntessa_Markievicz
Cuntessa_Markievicz
sOmEwHeRe OvEr ThE rAiNbOw
Post rating:
+
Hopefully this referendum makes people realise that Ireland has such a fucking weird relationship with America and we're literally the 51st state.
Just think about all the American influence within Irish culture let alone this referedum it's fucking everywhere.
Another thing that annoys me is how the forced birthers are encouraging adoption as a "solution" for abortion completely disregarding the mistreatment of adopted people that were trafficked to the usa from Ireland and cannot obtain their original birth-certs.
Just think about all the American influence within Irish culture let alone this referedum it's fucking everywhere.
Another thing that annoys me is how the forced birthers are encouraging adoption as a "solution" for abortion completely disregarding the mistreatment of adopted people that were trafficked to the usa from Ireland and cannot obtain their original birth-certs.
Edited by Cuntessa_Markievicz ()
pescalune
pescalune
Ireland
Post rating:
~
I doubt that it will. Most Irish people would rather talk about Britain or the EU and ignore how deeply enmeshed Ireland is with American empire and interests. Perhaps then because we would have to talk about Ireland as oppressor rather than oppressed.
these are also the same people using adoption as a bogeyman during the marriage ref, going on about how a child needs a mother and a father blah blah blah
these are also the same people using adoption as a bogeyman during the marriage ref, going on about how a child needs a mother and a father blah blah blah
overfire
overfire
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Cuntessa_Markievicz posted:Another thing that annoys me is how the forced birthers are encouraging adoption as a "solution" for abortion completely disregarding the mistreatment of adopted people that were trafficked to the usa from Ireland and cannot obtain their original birth-certs.
Considering these are the same people that brought you a septic tank full of dead babies in Tuam yet can say "Love Both" with a straight face this is not surprising
lo
lo
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Cuntessa_Markievicz posted:Hopefully this referendum makes people realise that Ireland has such a fucking weird relationship with America and we're literally the 51st state.
Just think about all the American influence within Irish culture let alone this referedum it's fucking everywhere.
i think this applies pretty generally to a lot of smaller countries in the imperial core, we've got a similar thing going on down here although it's rarely acknowledged
Cuntessa_Markievicz
Cuntessa_Markievicz
sOmEwHeRe OvEr ThE rAiNbOw
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lo posted:i think this applies pretty generally to a lot of smaller countries in the imperial core, we've got a similar thing going on down here although it's rarely acknowledged
em what other countries have such a hard on for garth brooks like ireland does????
Gssh
Gssh
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worth pointing out that abortion is still illegal and heavily criminalized in northern ireland, and will likely remain so irrespective of the vote in the south.
last year police raided a local feminist network searching for abortion drugs, on women's fucking day no less.
last year police raided a local feminist network searching for abortion drugs, on women's fucking day no less.
pescalune
pescalune
Ireland
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Simon Harris, the vampiric blueshirt ghoul, didn't immediately shit his pants on stage during the debate tonight, so of course every middle class "radical" in the campaign is expressing their total admiration or open desire to fuck the bastard. What an embarrassment.
Very little outrage over the fact that the last televised debate is between two conservative male TDs either
Very little outrage over the fact that the last televised debate is between two conservative male TDs either
pescalune
pescalune
Ireland
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I truly hate Amerikkka with all my heart
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/23/europe/ireland-abortion-referendum-american-campaigners-intl/index.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/23/europe/ireland-abortion-referendum-american-campaigners-intl/index.html
Cuntessa_Markievicz
Cuntessa_Markievicz
sOmEwHeRe OvEr ThE rAiNbOw
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Its really fucking weird how on Irish Twitter all the rad libs fems declared Simon Harris as hot and totally bangable for having the medically correct opinion on abortion while as health minister he has presided over the deaths of women with one of the easier forms of cancer to treat before it gets terminal???
MarxUltor
MarxUltor
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Wait so now we're against sending white amerikan settlers back to where they came from?
Cuntessa_Markievicz
Cuntessa_Markievicz
sOmEwHeRe OvEr ThE rAiNbOw
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Irish Americans are the worst fucking diaspora group of all time and I await their mass death. For a group in america they're the fucking american police fucking and living reproducing dream and I wish more of their ancestors died on the famine ships on their way over to the Atlantic and weren't so Catholic with reproducing
ilmdge
ilmdge
Online
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Is there backlash against the foreign money and campaigning? Can nationalism be useful for once?
pescalune
pescalune
Ireland
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There's certainly some backlash. The Yankee imperialists aren't being very well received, and during the live debate Harris scored big points when he pointed out that our current abortion laws force women to Ireland's 800 year old enemy.
Cuntessa_Markievicz
Cuntessa_Markievicz
sOmEwHeRe OvEr ThE rAiNbOw
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There's certainly a lot that can be written about Irish American culture and their fetish for all things play pretend ireland. Its interesting how present they are within this campaign(hell all the American stock imagery) but how fucking silently passive aggressive they have been as well????
pescalune
pescalune
Ireland
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well today's the day. Exit poll in a couple of hours. Feel fuckin' sick, turnout hasnt been great, not so sure of victory as I was. Ah well Will have an indication soon and then the final count tomorrow afternoon
wuyong
wuyong
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https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-times-exit-poll-projects-ireland-has-voted-by-landslide-to-repeal-eighth-amendment-1.3508861
Comhghairdeas libh a chomrádaithe!
Comhghairdeas libh a chomrádaithe!
pescalune
pescalune
Ireland
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God. Apparently I had no reason to worry. We crushed the fascists and holy rollers. What a great day.
overfire
overfire
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Feeling fairly emotional tbh, I was cautious when the exit poll was just announced but celebration is in full swing everywhere, everyone seems certain. Fucking well done Ireland
karphead
karphead
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pescalune
pescalune
Ireland
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That's two exit polls now. RTEs poll is even higher, 69% (nice).
They're finished. Nuke the Vatican next
They're finished. Nuke the Vatican next
shriekingviolet
shriekingviolet
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GJ friends, congratulations.
Flying_horse_in_saudi_arabia
Flying_horse_in_saudi_arabia
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Petrol is pleased.
Cuntessa_Markievicz
Cuntessa_Markievicz
sOmEwHeRe OvEr ThE rAiNbOw
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Some hack from RTE tweeted yesterday that if yes wins you shouldn't celebrate but fuck that policing nonscene my home country actually trusts me with my own decisions and isn't going to deny me medical care amazing
Cuntessa_Markievicz
Cuntessa_Markievicz
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the end result has to be 69% for yes so ireland can get over its sexual hang ups
overfire
overfire
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Forced birthers BTFO Dublin is just a massive piss up today
Soviet_Salami
Soviet_Salami
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Better get those abortion furnaces fired up for a busy weekend.
Cuntessa_Markievicz
Cuntessa_Markievicz
sOmEwHeRe OvEr ThE rAiNbOw
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i got royally fucked up as is my constitutional right as an irish citizen
everyone else that is irish did anyone else feel like massively hungover for a week afterwards? i was just in such shock and i am still having dreams about abortion and ireland.
also its funny how the DUP and their stance on abortion/brexit has done so much for the chances of Irish reunification
Also amazing was how many pro choice people in Northern ireland that came down and canvassed and were offering lifts to those that lived in the border counties
everyone else that is irish did anyone else feel like massively hungover for a week afterwards? i was just in such shock and i am still having dreams about abortion and ireland.
also its funny how the DUP and their stance on abortion/brexit has done so much for the chances of Irish reunification
Also amazing was how many pro choice people in Northern ireland that came down and canvassed and were offering lifts to those that lived in the border counties
kinch
kinch
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all this time i just sort of assumed america had repealed the 8th amendment
zhaoyao
zhaoyao
lies half the time
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only in practice
c_man
c_man
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good job everyone