#601

swampman posted:



the set up isnt complete without the final paragraph

#602
This is long enough to go in the "incomprehensible dissolution" thread:


As we’ve mentioned the work central to the creation of the MIMist VLA <Maoist Internationalist Movement Vulgar Labor Aristocracy - ed> line was J. Sakai’s Settlers and anti-Marxist analysis of race (which replaces race for class as the principal form of oppression in Amerika). Settlers cites episodes from the extensive history of “white” racial oppression of people of color in Amerika and the relative privileged status that “whites” at all social-economic levels have enjoyed at the expense of peoples of color, and which has allowed even working class and poor whites to betray the interests of their counterparts of color. The main theme of Settlers is “white” racial treachery, betrayal, brutality and privilege that claims to know no class distinction. The conclusion being that these factors combine to create a uniform class of “whiteness” that has no proletarian sector.

We contrast Sakai’s narrow work with the broader and exhaustive works of Marxist proletarian intellectual Theodore Allen, particularly his two volume study The Invention of the White Race. Applying a political economic analysis he demonstrates that race and racism were/are created and manipulated by the ruling class as a tool to divide the working class against itself and only to the benefit of the ruling class.

Sakai’s work is geared more to the incitement of visceral reactions to the horrors of the practice of white supremacy and driving home the subjective theme of inherent treacherousness of “whites”. This to the end of inciting people of color to look upon all “whites” as a collective oppressor class and to erase the class lines that exist between and separate ruling class and working class “whites”. Sakai’s non-materialist study readily appeals to the affective mind. Allen’s work by contrast materially examines the methods and history behind the ruling class’s schemes that created race and racism, and incited workers and other strata against each other in the name of racial supremacy and counter-racial narratives which have perpetuated ongoing racial alienation, competition, subordination and so on. This has served to suppress and divert the collective outrage of the overall oppressed masses into channels that have protected and advanced the wealth, power and interests of the ruling class. Allen also examines how the concept of “whiteness” has been used and serves to blind “whites” to the sufferings imposed by “whiteness” on racialized “others” and he further demonstrates that ultimately “whites” do not benefit from racism or the sense of racial privilege and entitlement. Allen’s work is geared more to the cognitive materialist mind that is interested in understanding the origins, roots and purpose of race and racism and how to counter its divisive and often catastrophic impact on oppressed peoples of all colors and especially the proletariat.


http://rashidmod.com/?p=1125

The description and characterisation of Settlers here strikes me as outright wrong... It is visceral tho

Edited by xipe ()

#603

This to the end of inciting people of color to look upon all “whites” as a collective oppressor class and to erase the class lines that exist between and separate ruling class and working class “whites”.

Citation needed

Allen’s work is geared more to the cognitive materialist mind

Fuck you

Edited by swampman ()

#604
Did I misread the book completely or is Settlers conclusions not really that radical, at least speaking from a left wing perspective? That the white upper and middle class is massively bloated and has a parasitic relationship to the exploited black and immigrant underclasses and to the developing world, and the racist histories of us labor movements seems to be pretty common sense. I don't even think the CTH hosts would dispute this? I don't think the book advocates for quietism at all

#605

swampman posted:

Allen’s work is geared more to the cognitive materialist mind

Fuck you



in that looong article rashid argues that the oppressed working classes need to put aside their differences and join with the oppressor working classes ... which is the opposite approach the Panthers took in the 60s vis-a-vis CPUSA, as dhoruba bin wahad explains in an anecdote about angela davis somewhere in here


rashid wrote this in 2015
The main theme of Settlers is “white” racial treachery, betrayal, brutality and privilege that claims to know no class distinction.

sakai had already addressed this in 2000
http://kersplebedeb.com/posts/raceburn/

#606

rolaids posted:

Did I misread the book completely or is Settlers conclusions not really that radical, at least speaking from a left wing perspective? That the white upper and middle class is massively bloated and has a parasitic relationship to the exploited black and immigrant underclasses and to the developing world, and the racist histories of us labor movements seems to be pretty common sense. I don't even think the CTH hosts would dispute this? I don't think the book advocates for quietism at all


Yeah Sakai is very reasonable imho, it's just that unfortunately a lot of white people who want to call themselves leftists but go into indignant seizures when challenged on racial issues are kicked out of lefty academic/anarchist social circles and by process of elimination wind up in shitty basement-marxist circles where they can hide out by only talking about (a very narrow and outdated definition of) class. A specific kind of creep who has been rejected from the mainstream left for legitimately good reasons that makes a lot of hay by joining in on marxist critiques of the left in the west out of sour grapes alone.

They get really nervous when the accountability to their (settler colonialism, passive white supremacy, male chauvinism, etc) they sought to escape starts forming cracks in their little bubble. You can get a similar reaction of white boys shitting themselves in indignant terror whenever marxist feminism comes up.

#607
what's annoying is that their brains are so melted by Idpol that they think Sakai would call the life of european immigrant workers in the US in the early 1900s bourgeois when he argues the literal opposite and they have the nerve to think sakai essentializes race in place of class or whatever
#608
It's the smug pride in loudly refusing to read a book and posturing as if just making shit up about it instead makes them intellectual titans that gets to me.
#609

shriekingviolet posted:

It's the smug pride in loudly refusing to read a book and posturing as if just making shit up about it instead makes them intellectual titans that gets to me.



they get bonus points for refusing to pick up such a short and readable a book as Settlers (the main reason for having to put it down is from anger at what went on) which is a history packed full of facts even if you want to disagree with the authors opinions

#610
[account deactivated]
#611
guys my biggest problem with settlers is that it is reverse racist also i am a socialist
#612
communist grandma discovers the secret to understanding class in america using this one wierd book
#613
#614

tears posted:

swampman posted:

the set up isnt complete without the final paragraph


theres a left in saudi arabia?

#615
yes, but
#616

lo posted:

theres a left in saudi arabia?



it includes such luminaries as that one overwatch streamer goon who wants to bathe in the blood of the entire assad family, but has minor disagreements with his government (left ones!) on matters other than foreign policy

#617
[account deactivated]
#618

swampman posted:




What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little third worldist? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class from Naxalite University, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on the Modi Regime, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire Naxalites. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of communist sleepers across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the 4th, 5th AND 6th Internationals and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

#619
hey so downvotes are good over there right
#620
have any of these piss artists read the fucking book
#621
https://www.leftwingbooks.net/book/content/dangerous-class-and-revolutionary-theory whos ready for some new sakai?
#622
my dad knows a Naxalite!!!!!!!
#623

littlegreenpills posted:

have any of these piss artists read the fucking book



No.

#624
A lot of bourgie people in the US became "socialist" recently in part because they expect talking about class to inoculate them from liberal guilt about racism. Thats not all of it by any means but its part of it

Sakai seems to say they might have to do something differently in that sense from just saying Medicaid is Good and because they are unlikely to want to admit the cure-my-guilt motive as part of their politics, since the whole point of that part is to conceal it from themselves & others, just sort of suggesting that Settlers might push them to examine it makes those people insanely mad in their body parts
#625
it's sad to me because if they just read the book they'd have things to say about parts they agreed with and parts they didn't
#626
the only way for white liberals to truly excavate their guilt is to refuse US land property and homeownership, won from ethnic cleansing, which they would learn, if they read settlers

can you imagine white people taking up the call for decolonization in a material way tho, that'd be the day
#627

toyotathon posted:

the only way for white liberals to truly excavate their guilt is to refuse US land property and homeownership



most of them would need to be offered it by somebody first

#628

xipe posted:

swampman posted:

Allen’s work is geared more to the cognitive materialist mind

Fuck you

in that looong article rashid argues that the oppressed working classes need to put aside their differences and join with the oppressor working classes ... which is the opposite approach the Panthers took in the 60s vis-a-vis CPUSA, as dhoruba bin wahad explains in an anecdote about angela davis somewhere in here


rashid wrote this in 2015
The main theme of Settlers is “white” racial treachery, betrayal, brutality and privilege that claims to know no class distinction.

sakai had already addressed this in 2000
http://kersplebedeb.com/posts/raceburn/




flogging a dead horse here but sakai responds to this 'criticism' in a radio interview:

https://youtu.be/t3p2xf8NdRg?t=44m49s

#629

troolari posted:

https://www.leftwingbooks.net/book/content/dangerous-class-and-revolutionary-theorywhos ready for some new sakai?


im pretty sure ive never seen anyone say or write "mao z" before seeing this

#630
j sakai just invents shit all the time it rules.
#631
prisoners do that constantly as well. come up with their own words or abbreviations.
#632
joey s
#633
nevr hex a ho
#634
glad to see "j sakai" reafirming joseph stalins contribution to the theory of linguistics, that contrary to soviet linguists high on their own supply of dialectical materialism, language was not invented by the bourgioisie to mind control everyone, because clearly people make up new words and reapropriate old ones all the time, while rich white guys get mad af about the one true definition of "decimate"
#635
hahaha yeah the decimate one is funny. Also 'literally', which has come to mean the opposite of the old meaning without fully abandoning it, and that's pretty cool
#636
joey S. literally decimated the bourgeoisie - sakai
#637
When someone accuses JVS of being shit at writing :
#638
Regardless of how wrong you think Stalin was the idea that his style was somehow more unscruTable Trotskys goofy ass is wild
#639
That first section discussing language not being a part of the superstructure was pretty obvious but damn, imagine if it was, that would be trippy.

#640