#121
Post rating: ~

shennong posted:

Lessons posted:
i also have to suspect this isn't some unique event distinct from every other famine in history, where the environmental factors were at most the precondition and the whole episode would have been entirely avoidable given an equitable distribution system. what's the point of an environmental critique completely divorced from a larger societal critique

yeah dude, why didn't they just hang a banner with a 5000 word manifesto explicating the interactions between late capitalism, agroecology, and climate?


no instead they should hang a banner that says something both incorrect and convincing to no one who wasn't already on board

#122
Post rating: ~
It's amazing how people on the progressive left can accurately see how fearmongering is profitable when it's the MIC, but put their blinders on when it comes to this.
#123
Post rating: +
solidarity with third world peasants in areas of concern to them - shrill! 350 thousand excess deaths/year in third world economies - basically nothing! so this.. this is marxism
#124
Post rating: +
imagine if we changed our behavior and started burning less fossil fuel and consuming less in general and recycling and all that but the climate kept changing and there were famines and sea levels rising and hurricanes and blizzards and floods and locusts and shit anyway. we would have curbed our appetites for consumption for nothing and humanity's last few decades on earth wouldnt be filled with hedonism and gluttony and waste. what a horrible fate
#125
drivel of drunken hags
Post rating: ~
all these crops we were growing for the horn of africa.. mercilessly spoiled by the ravages of climate change...
#126
Post rating: ~

shennong posted:
solidarity with third world peasants in areas of concern to them - shrill! 350 thousand excess deaths/year in third world economies - basically nothing! so this.. this is marxism



it is a shame. so many of those deaths could be prevented if they had access to the same cheap and abundanant energy that we enjoy

#127
Post rating: ~

shennong posted:
solidarity with third world peasants in areas of concern to them - shrill! 350 thousand excess deaths/year in third world economies - basically nothing! so this.. this is marxism


if that banner had said 'capitalism' or 'imperialism' rather than 'global warming' it would have been equally shrill bumper-sticker sloganeering and also equally ineffectual

#128
Post rating: ~

shennong posted:
solidarity with third world peasants in areas of concern to them - shrill! 350 thousand excess deaths/year in third world economies - basically nothing! so this.. this is marxism

the statistic provided was actually simply a vague "350,000 died from climate change", there was no reference to location or economy, or anyhting else.

#129
Post rating: ~

TG posted:
imagine if we changed our behavior and started burning less fossil fuel and consuming less in general and recycling and all that but the climate kept changing and there were famines and sea levels rising and hurricanes and blizzards and floods and locusts and shit anyway. we would have curbed our appetites for consumption for nothing and humanity's last few decades on earth wouldnt be filled with hedonism and gluttony and waste. what a horrible fate



communism equals soviet power plus electrification, not pedal power plus windmills

#130
drivel of drunken hags
Post rating: ~

TG posted:
imagine if we changed our behavior and started burning less fossil fuel and consuming less in general and recycling and all that but the climate kept changing and there were famines and sea levels rising and hurricanes and blizzards and floods and locusts and shit anyway. we would have curbed our appetites for consumption for nothing and humanity's last few decades on earth wouldnt be filled with hedonism and gluttony and waste. what a horrible fate


there is quite the difference between condemning international regimes that seek to keep poor countries at their status quo and what you're describing

#131
Post rating: ~

Lessons posted:

shennong posted:
solidarity with third world peasants in areas of concern to them - shrill! 350 thousand excess deaths/year in third world economies - basically nothing! so this.. this is marxism

if that banner had said 'capitalism' or 'imperialism' rather than 'global warming' it would have been equally shrill bumper-sticker sloganeering and also equally ineffectual



the banner isn't the point you sociopath

#132
Post rating: ~

shennong posted:
you sociopath


speaking of shrill melodrama,

#133
desire be, desire go
Post rating: ~

shennong posted:
solidarity with third world peasants in areas of concern to them - shrill! 350 thousand excess deaths/year in third world economies - basically nothing! so this.. this is marxism



excess deaths seems like a peculiar concept

#134
Post rating: +
lol stop posting thug lessonz
#135
desire be, desire go
Post rating: ~
theyre just talking past each other
#136
Post rating: ~

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
It's amazing how people on the progressive left can accurately see how fearmongering is profitable when it's the MIC, but put their blinders on when it comes to this.



what is "this" you disingenuous idiot?

#137
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

Lessons posted:
i also have to suspect this isn't some unique event distinct from every other famine in history, where the environmental factors were at most the precondition and the whole episode would have been entirely avoidable given an equitable distribution system. what's the point of an environmental critique completely divorced from a larger societal critique



Communism: the political system that causes prevents famines

#138
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
hahaha can you imagine what a marxist dictatorship would do in the face of this crisis hahaha lordy lord
#139
Post rating: ~

AmericanNazbro posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
It's amazing how people on the progressive left can accurately see how fearmongering is profitable when it's the MIC, but put their blinders on when it comes to this.

what is "this" you disingenuous idiot?



scientists, governments, bureaucracies, universities, ngos

there's a lot of money in fear

#140
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:
hahaha can you imagine what a marxist dictatorship would do in the face of this crisis hahaha lordy lord

"i don't know how marxists will solve the global warming crisis, but the subsequent crisis will be fought with sticks and stones" - albert einstein

#141
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:

Lessons posted:
i also have to suspect this isn't some unique event distinct from every other famine in history, where the environmental factors were at most the precondition and the whole episode would have been entirely avoidable given an equitable distribution system. what's the point of an environmental critique completely divorced from a larger societal critique

Communism: the political system that causes prevents famines


actually i believe you'll find all those famines were caused by droughts and other environmental factors, not economics and politics

#142
Post rating: ~
-applies for government grant
-cashes check
-dives into pool of money like scrooge mcduck
#143
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

Lessons posted:

babyfinland posted:

Lessons posted:
i also have to suspect this isn't some unique event distinct from every other famine in history, where the environmental factors were at most the precondition and the whole episode would have been entirely avoidable given an equitable distribution system. what's the point of an environmental critique completely divorced from a larger societal critique

Communism: the political system that causes prevents famines

actually i believe you'll find all those famines were caused by droughts and other environmental factors, not economics and politics



another great slogan for a banner. keep those juices flowin guys

#144
Post rating: ~
droughts and tsunamis don't kill people - God kills people. ~sends prayer waves to japan~
#145
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
*writes IF U HAD SOCIALISMZ THIS WUD NOT HAPPEN DERP on a sign, puts on a stormtrooper helmet*
#146
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
ecosocialists believe there is a lot of evidence for global warming, but they also take a look at actually existing socialism and think "not too bad"
#147
Post rating: +
we live in a world of representation. all our information on political issues, particularly large scale ones, is filtered through many layers of anonymous experts and spokepeople of unknown motives. we cannot even truly trust our senses--how could we ever trust politicians, scientists, and other strangers? indeed, the only thing we can ever be certain of is that Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects
#148
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:
*writes IF U HAD SOCIALISMZ THIS WUD NOT HAPPEN DERP on a sign, puts on a stormtrooper helmet*



that's true, socialists don't offer any clear solutions, which puts them about on par with everyone else including the green movement

#149
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
actually-existing socialism is probably the only thing that even comes close to being as horrible an ecological disaster as capitalism has been
#150
Kurdt
Post rating: ~
trotskyism++
#151
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:
ecosocialists believe there is a lot of evidence for global warming, but they also take a look at actually existing socialism and think "not too bad"



#152
Nippon
Post rating: ~

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
It's amazing how people on the progressive left can accurately see how fearmongering is profitable when it's the MIC, but put their blinders on when it comes to this.



if there is profit to be made it is by hydrocarbon companies, which we do see try continually try to fund studies to disprove climate change

#153
Post rating: ~
"If the Perennially Indignant think pollution is the fault only of Reaganites wallowing in capitalist greed, then they should go take a deep breath in Smolensk or a long drink from the river Volga."

- pj orourke lol
#154
Post rating: ~

Goethestein posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
It's amazing how people on the progressive left can accurately see how fearmongering is profitable when it's the MIC, but put their blinders on when it comes to this.

if there is profit to be made it is by hydrocarbon companies, which we do see try continually try to fund studies to disprove climate change



there is profit in food too but that doesn't mean that potatoes aren't delicious

#155
Nippon
Post rating: ~

Lessons posted:

babyfinland posted:

Lessons posted:
i also have to suspect this isn't some unique event distinct from every other famine in history, where the environmental factors were at most the precondition and the whole episode would have been entirely avoidable given an equitable distribution system. what's the point of an environmental critique completely divorced from a larger societal critique

Communism: the political system that causes prevents famines

actually i believe you'll find all those famines were caused by droughts and other environmental factors, not economics and politics



what about mao
-starting a campaign to kill all the vermin-eating sparrows
-deciding it would be a super keen idea to plant crops twice as close together
-shipping experienced farm labor into cities to work
-putting quotas for iron production on farmers, causing them to need to smelt their tools into shitty pig iron
-creating a climate of ideology and fear that kept people from addressing the problem when it was minor
-refusing food aid

#156
Post rating: ~

Goethestein posted:

Lessons posted:

babyfinland posted:

Lessons posted:
i also have to suspect this isn't some unique event distinct from every other famine in history, where the environmental factors were at most the precondition and the whole episode would have been entirely avoidable given an equitable distribution system. what's the point of an environmental critique completely divorced from a larger societal critique

Communism: the political system that causes prevents famines

actually i believe you'll find all those famines were caused by droughts and other environmental factors, not economics and politics

what about mao
-starting a campaign to kill all the vermin-eating sparrows
-deciding it would be a super keen idea to plant crops twice as close together
-shipping experienced farm labor into cities to work
-putting quotas for iron production on farmers, causing them to need to smelt their tools into shitty pig iron
-creating a climate of ideology and fear that kept people from addressing the problem when it was minor
-refusing food aid



otoh have you considered that everything was fabricated by western historians. food 4 thought (I have no other kind of food)

#157
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
close-planting actually "works". like if you close plant you get much higher yields. the problem is that it uses the soil too quickly so you'll get failures later.

also sideline steel production in villages was one of the leading sectors of growth in the early deng reform area, so it wasn't like farmers couldn't do it. the problem is that they provided the wrong sort of incentives.
#158
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why should u believe anything. really makes u think
#159
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#160
Nippon
Post rating: ~

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
"If the Perennially Indignant think pollution is the fault only of Reaganites wallowing in capitalist greed, then they should go take a deep breath in Smolensk or a long drink from the river Volga."

- pj orourke lol



that's true. although under True Socialism all problems we understand today will vanish