#2241
the US is responsible for this fight, but fuck it. i hope russia kills every last nazi piece of shit. davai!
#2242
I was one of the people who said that there probably wouldn't be war. I thought that especially because some people I knew online and trusted as information sources were Ukrainian and said it was nonsense, but I think I would have said it if I hadn't, just to dismiss the White House propaganda. But of course this changed after skirmishes between Donetsk, Luhansk and nationalist thugs at the border, ultimately violating the ceasefire and writing a death sentence for the Minsk (dis)Agreements, and it was that ignition point that the U.S. Government recognized, ignored and even fostered within Ukraine by sheltering warmongering nationalists and acting as their PR firm internationally. It's not even that Ukraine, a country with wages 30x below the average European country, that mainly relies on cheap exports of its natural resources and overflowing with Western capital, and most importantly about to become NATO's protectorate, was particularly ripe for "more exploitation" after this. But I think one actor is - Russia will sink itself into ruin if it continues to occupy Ukraine in a regime change attempt, far beyond to their original stated aim of aiding the D/LPR. There's also the possibility of the further immiseration of miners and other workers in the area - especially if Russia decides not to annex Donetsk and Luhansk, as the average wages there are even lower than in Russia and it's a massive coal mining region. What is the Russian bourgeois going to do?
#2243
i didn't think invasion was going to happen until i heard the us say that they'd sanction russia if they invaded. at that point, putin knew that there would be no actual repercussions, and then with zelensky saying he was no longer going to abide by minsk 2 and maybe getting nukes again, putin was basically put in the position of an invasion being the best way to get what he wants.
#2244
hot off the tel aviv presses, more words to make yr eyes turn to jelly and bleed


#2245
i hope someone is collecting all these zelenzky headlines because they are hilarious. i especially liked the one where it was "this might be the last time u see me alive :("
#2246
i'm doing 14 hour days away from any source of news, can anyone tell me if nukes have gone off?
#2247
not yet. according to russua ministry of defense
#2248
#2249
i'm praying for peace... the peace of the grave
#2250
hope everyone in ukraine is ok. and that everyone not in ukraine is also ok.
#2251
urban warfare tips for the guerilla on the go

1.) Stay out of the steet.
2.) Stay out of street.
3.) For the love of G-d, stay out of the street. The worst place to be in an urban warfare environment is to be outside.
4.) Doors are called “the fatal funnel.” It is human nature to try and enter through a door. Aim all your weapons at the door to maximize the number of kills.
5.) Block the door from the inside with anything you can, furniture, chairs, booby-traps (explosives). The idea is to make the invaders think the door isn’t blocked. That way when they try to enter they remain exposed for the longest amount of time possible.
6.) Stairways are another good killing zone. Block stairways with any obstacles you can to slow down invaders in your Dark Souls game.
7.) if you throw grenades downstairs, have your magazine fully topped off and ready. The invaders in Minecraft will most likely run up the stairs to run past the grenade blast. You’ll need all the ammo you have to gun as many down as possible.
8.) When possible, cut small holes in the floor into the rooms below to fire into. People breaching rooms will look for threats directly in front of them and usually don’t look above or below until last.
9.) Don’t sling your weapon around your body. If things go hand-to-hand it will hinder you.
10.) Have a knife, spade, or club close by and readily available. If you have to fight hand-to-hand it’s much more handy than a rifle.
11.) Never fire from the same window twice.
12.) Never stick the muzzle of your rifle outside of a window. Don’t expose it.
13.) Shoot from deep inside the room out of the window. It will help hide the muzzle flash and reduce the noise making it hard to tell where it came from.
14.) If you wound an enemy, don’t kill him. Let his friends come to help him. Moving a wounding a soldier means it will take 4 men out of the fight to carry him away. That’s four less rifles firing at you.
15.) Shoot the men trying to evacuate the wounded soldier. It will demoralize them and take even more men out of the fight to evacuate him.
16.) Keep as many carbohydrates on you and remember to eat and hydrate. Urban warfare is incredibly intensive.
17.) Keep moving. Never stay in one spot very long.
18.) One very accurately placed shot can hold up a lot of people for a very long time. You don’t have to be a sniper. You just have to convince them there is one in the area.
19.) Utilize the sewers in subways to move whenever possible.
20.) Whenever possible, try to let other friendlies know where you are at to avoid friendly fire. It’s very easy to start shooting at each other in an urban environment.
21.) It may be consuming, but take the tracers out of your ammunition supply and refrain from using them.
22.) have one magazine of all tracer rounds. Use this magazine only when you need to let everyone else (friends) know where an enemy is located at. (Across the street, in a park, which window). After using it run like hell and get away from where you just were.
23.) Ammunition goes fast. Conserve what you have.
24.) 10 men firing from several different buildings can appear to be a small army and stop a lot of people.
25.) Rip down street signs, deface building names, and do anything to strip the identity of where you are at. This will add confusion to an invading force.
26.) Evacuate your wounded in a timely manner possible.
27.) if the enemy suddenly pulls back, GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE AREA. It doesn’t mean you’re winning. It means they are going to call and heavy artillery or an air strike on your position.
28.) if you are going to lose an area, poison common water supplies. Most likely an enemy will try to refill their supplies at the closest source.
29.) Cluster your booby traps in close proximity to create paranoia.
30.) Always keep on the move. Never stay in the same place for long.
#2252
#2253
western liberals lusts for ukranian deaths. mf's is shart, florida recommending throwing paint filled baloons at tanks. liberals experiencing thanatophilic arousal at the thought of someones ukranian grandmother holding a molotov cocktail getting vaporised. her last words? fuck u russia. a thousand miles away an american orgasms.
#2254

colddays posted:

In a way this feels like a bit of a graduation for Russia. From semi-periphery to a true imperialist pole in the capitalist order. Maybe not all the way, but it's a turning point from going tit-for-tat with expelling diplomats while NATO marches closer.


imperialism is when a Retard online thinks you are imperialist somehow while you get cut off from the networks of finance capital and trade

#2255
I can say the word. I'm retarded
#2256
let's not call this war imperial. let's call it what it is: Retarded
#2257

88888 posted:

let's not call this war imperial. let's call it what it is: Retarded


This.

#2258


obama-era but holds up pretty well considering how little changed since minsk II
#2259


Look at these nazi rats, they must be exterminated totally this time.
#2260

Crow posted:

imperialism is when a Retard online thinks you are imperialist somehow while you get cut off from the networks of finance capital and trade



Don't be rude to me.
Explain your point instead of trying to Marvel movie 1-liner me for upvotes.

My understanding is that Russia is blossoming into another imperialist pole. It's only natural that they would be cut off from the Western pole's networks as rivalry intensifies. America has divided the world to its liking over the last 3 decades, now Russia must seek to redivide it or collapse as a state. Ukraine is an important economic battleground for Russia as a major trading partner before 2014 and a route to pipe Russian gas to Europe. That's not to downplay the geopolitical/strategic reasons for launching a war in Ukraine (NATO expansion, potential threat to the balance of nuclear forces) or the flat refusal of Ukraine and the Western imperialist bloc to negotiate a peaceful resolution, but these are phenomena of the essential fact that a capitalist Russia must become a competing imperialist power in the future.

The West wants to "contain" Russia precisely because they know that Russia's potential growth leaves it no choice but to compete more and more as it matures. Again, Russia is not by any means a full-fledged empire equal to the American empire. America and Europe would much rather suffocate their potential competition before it can get anywhere close to that, and Russia has no choice but to press forward towards the title.

I'm open to changing my mind on any of the above.

Edited by colddays ()

#2261
Seems like a lot of hedging there. Russia is “blossoming into” or “must become” an imperialist power because it is “not by any means a full fledged empire.” While against the stage the undisputed imperialist block has set Russia must act or “collapse as a state.” I see the point you are trying to make but it seems undercut by its own explanation.

Guilt by association can’t replace a solid materialist analysis but I can help but notice that this line is overwhelmingly prevalent right now. In the US everyone from DSA to rightwing former Iraq war cheerleaders are currently putting out statements that go: “The US is an empire an has made mistakes in the past like imperialist invasions of other countries. Which is why we know what this is and must condemn it. This is a Russian imperialist invasion and it must not be allowed”
#2262
it is possible to think that the invasion of ukraine is dumb as shit while also understanding exactly why for russia it is the least worst option. i dont think empathy for those who suffer in war time is mutually exclusive with sympathy for the untenable position russia was being put in by nato expansion. for me it seems like a pre-emptive defensive invasion, which is muvh of an oxymoron, so how you parse and justify/dont that is up to you! nor will i be sad to see ukrainian neo-nazis booted.

but as always i try to think what this will mean for regular people in ukraine, and war, it turns out, is horrible. i dont really think it is nessessary to be morally yay or nay with everything.

Edited by tears ()

#2263
also i should point out that it is pretty fucked up that ukraine has accelerated into the nazi germany in retreat phase of barbarism where armbanded deputies with guns are setting up checkpoints and hunting for "saboteurs" blasting away at EMTs and executing people who speak with an accent.

this is from a book i saw linked in the bad place

#2264
I feel pretty sickened by the current valorization of these "Ukrainian resistance fighters" because it works backwards from an extremely narrow assumption that a nascent nationalistic fervor will rise up in the general population and simply repel and easily overwhelm the invading Russian forces. The vast majority of the people in Ukraine are not going to "bravely fight" anyone; maybe other than a fractional band of misguided weirdos and psychos taking a few pot shots at the wrong target before dying in the road. Dumping an unbelievable amount of untraceable weaponry into an already unstable country all but assures that-- even with a ceasefire or a peace agreement between the two countries-- there will still be ever-roiling, nilhistic violence and a deepening and entrenchment of ultranationalist, neo-Nazi militias.
Every Angloid has to imagine some 17-year-old kid going Hulk mode on some other Russian teenagers to feel like there is some sort of positive outcome in which there is anything but pointless, miserable violence and murder in a part of the world that has already endured enough fucking misery over the past 60 years. I mean, all told, I get the value of a little propaganda from the Ukrainian side for morale purposes, but when you see genuinely psychotic glee coming from English-speaking people online about how a bunch of weeping Russian teenagers were epically executed by the brave Azov battalion warriors, it's hard to feel anything but a deep, deep sickness and a desire to completely stop engaging with this subject any further.
#2265

solidar posted:

Seems like a lot of hedging there.


Well I've learned it's necessary to spare myself 3 pages of accusations of being a CIA fanboy or neonazi apologist, being called a right winger, and condescended to by The Lenin Understanders.

My fundamental point is that this is a major event signifying a change in the world system. Not a commentary on whether Russia's actions are justified. The forces of capitalist development will push Russia into conflict regardless of justification, just as they push the western imperialist bloc to try to crush and fracture Russia no matter what.

#2266
i might be mistaken, but russia's success in quelling nato's expansion via georgia in 2008 didn't lead to the appearance in russia of the sort of monopolies that continue to distinguish the u.s. from china. do we have reason to believe that the invasion of ukraine will lead russia down some novel path of economic development? or maybe you have in mind some other conditions, in terms of "empire," that satisfy "a change in the world system."
#2267

tears posted:

also i should point out that it is pretty fucked up that ukraine has accelerated into the nazi germany in retreat phase of barbarism where armbanded deputies with guns are setting up checkpoints and hunting for "saboteurs" blasting away at EMTs and executing people who speak with an accent.


honestly they've been barbarous nazis throughout the donbas war as well, this is not new behavior.

#2268
also cutting off water to crimea when they voted to leave ukraine

Edited by misanthropic_rage ()

#2269

colddays posted:

Well I've learned it's necessary to spare myself 3 pages of accusations of being a CIA fanboy or neonazi apologist, being called a right winger, and condescended to by The Lenin Understanders.

My fundamental point is that this is a major event signifying a change in the world system. Not a commentary on whether Russia's actions are justified. The forces of capitalist development will push Russia into conflict regardless of justification, just as they push the western imperialist bloc to try to crush and fracture Russia no matter what.


To my mind the main problem is that while the analysis could be technically right, its wrong in actual material terms (the worst kind of wrong because its insidious and annoying). its a little like describing a successful slave rebellion in terms of their taking steps to become slaveowners - the power differential and the General State of Things is the defining context. as soon as you start thinking in terms of "well if they were in their position they would be just as bad/do the same thing" youre idealizing from material circumstances as if the world is just populated with abstract Actors who Do things, which is to say youre losing the whole historical perspective

#2270
the thing i've tried to keep in mind over the last few days is that Putin is not a Marxist and consistently erases class.

this is not to do some dumb "neither Washington nor Moscow" bit. but Putin isn't nostalgic for the USSR, he's an Evola reading dude who constantly complains about how the Soviet nationalization policies were a disaster for Russia proper. it is very possible/probable that without the Eternal Science, he just read the situation wrong and made a disastrous mistake

i didn't think a full attack on Kiev was going to happen, i thought the endgame was recognition of Donetsk/Luhansk and moving in troops to prevent the civilians from getting attacked by Azov and other assorted nazis. i thought that this would accomplish their goals: prevent Ukraine from joining NATO (an incredibly reasonable demand), keep NS2 open, minimize sanctions. WELP

now it's gloves off, and the removal from SWIFT, the collapse of the rouble, all that is going to seriously hurt the Russian people
#2271
On the off chance that vladimir "the bad russian" putin's actions possess an imperialist quality, I have pre-emptively severed my economic connections with russia (stopped buying weed from eastern europeans).
#2272
as a form of economic aid to help ease the harm of this war, I have just bought a shitload of molly from "eastern europeans" (my usual guy but he was doing a funny accent)
#2273
place your bets, I'm going with slow grinding russian victory: occupation/annexation of the eastern half or so of Ukraine, at least, while Zelensky continues to publicly ask for troops or EU membership and gets only applause in return. eventually Ukraine will make some deal after it's clear that no one is coming. Russia has no reason to back down now that all the economic guns have been fired.

followed by a grudging renormalization of Russian trade over a few years and a silent knowledge that all these embargoes and sanctions did not actually change the world, they just accelerated the development of non-USD international economic systems and immiserated tons of people.

it is true that a bunch of journalists are getting to be white war correspondents and politicians are getting to make very big speeches. so all in all a big success i guess. i am sad for old Ukrainian moms.

bonus number: Trump 2024
#2274
The funniest outcome is if Hungary takes Uzhhorod and Mukachevo and western media justifies Hungarian ethnic irredentism as some sort of cordon sanitaire
#2275

drwhat posted:

place your bets, I'm going with slow grinding russian victory: occupation/annexation of the eastern half or so of Ukraine, at least, while Zelensky continues to publicly ask for troops or EU membership and gets only applause in return. eventually Ukraine will make some deal after it's clear that no one is coming. Russia has no reason to back down now that all the economic guns have been fired.


Yeah

followed by a grudging renormalization of Russian trade over a few years and a silent knowledge that all these embargoes and sanctions did not actually change the world, they just accelerated the development of non-USD international economic systems and immiserated tons of people.

while I don’t think this really marks a major turning point so much as a noticeable moment (in large part due to racist/lingering anti-soviet/anti trump media hype) in a decades log trend , I agree with the general point colddays was making that this is only the beginning of a period of more inter-capitalist fighting. The other conflicts over the past 5-10 years signaled the same thing: the capitalist system with so few spots left to expand into, pushed by the quickly growing stresses of climate change ends in conflict. While a renormalization with Russia is possible, I see it as equally likely the possibility that the fracture of this war never recovers, that the break in trade relations on makes the entry into the next conflict easier for both sides.


bonus number: Trump 2024

id guess this makes it both less likely that he’d want to run, and less likely that he’d win if he does

#2276
got called a tankie for pointing out ukraine has a nazi problem, feels good man
#2277
it's just syria x100 all over again in terms of the tankie condemnation being rolled out
#2278

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2022/03/02/the-controversy-over-chrystia-freeland-and-the-ukrainian-scarf-explained.html

In a statement provided to the Star, a spokesperson for Freeland called the controversy “a classic KGB disinformation smear … accusing Ukrainians and Ukrainian-Canadians of being far right extremists or fascists or Nazis just because they constantly gush about loving their Nazi collaborator grandfather, insist he never did anything wrong, wear known neonazi insignia in photo ops, and drive to work in a painstakingly restored Tiger II.”

#2279
I'd like to take a moment to remind those not up to speed on Canadian politics that it was Ukrainians and Ukrainian-Canadians who did research through their own painstakingly kept records to expose deputy prime minister Freeland's unrepentant nazi ties. The sustained years long campaign by the federal government to cover it up and smear it as lies by the wily foreign other is deeply enraging to that community.

There is a strong leftist current within the diaspora in Canada that was instrumental in establishing some of the earliest support structures for protecting marginalized immigrant communities and preserving their history in this country, with no help and frequent racist opposition from the government. That thankless work was then plundered, ignored or otherwise wasted by those same descendants of nazi collaborators who had pushed them out of their homeland in the first place and, in exchange for their worker suppressing anticommunist zeal, gained favor from the Canadian government to build their own well-funded cultural museums. The government of Canada suddenly cared about such things once they had cooperative revanchist creeps eager to rewrite a history more suited to the West's designs.
#2280
the Ukranian-Canadian community includes myself and iirc a mr getfiscal in its membership, so it's pretty bad, but thank you for pointing that out shriekking

i popped into the Toronto rally for a second and then popped pretty quickly out when i saw all the black and red flags. they were huge, central, impossible to miss. i guess Chrystia didn't mind them.

in other news:

Clemens Grafe, central and eastern Europe economist at Goldman Sachs, said the immediate crisis for Russia would dissipate in six to nine months when it had earned enough from oil and gas sales to offset the sanctions placed on the central bank’s foreign exchange reserves.