babyhueypnewton posted:

Thug Lessons was a step we all took and left behind in our journey to being mature communists, the idea that politics is a pathology or that Marxism is merely a step in technological mode of Being or slave morality or wherever semi-fascist critique is a necessary youthful critique that one overcomes to understand Marxism as science.

ok i wrote a bunch of words and then deleted them because it was an emotional reaction and probably came off as needlessly confrontational and i don't actually want to accuse or admonish.

lemme just say it's really fucking creepy when you take a period of your own intellectual development that you now disavow, fine good whatever, then universalize and disperse the blame as "semi-fascist necessary youthfulness" onto an entire community. skin crawlingly creepy. what the fuck dude? i worry about ya.

drwhat posted:

wow who cares

a great weight is lifted from my shoulders as i realize i have no reason to care. thank you, cat.

shriekingviolet posted:

babyhueypnewton posted:

Thug Lessons was a step we all took and left behind in our journey to being mature communists, the idea that politics is a pathology or that Marxism is merely a step in technological mode of Being or slave morality or wherever semi-fascist critique is a necessary youthful critique that one overcomes to understand Marxism as science.

ok i wrote a bunch of words and then deleted them because it was an emotional reaction and probably came off as needlessly confrontational and i don't actually want to accuse or admonish.

lemme just say it's really fucking creepy when you take a period of your own intellectual development that you now disavow, fine good whatever, then universalize and disperse the blame as "semi-fascist necessary youthfulness" onto an entire community. skin crawlingly creepy. what the fuck dude? i worry about ya.

Please, I was defending Marxism on this forum for longer than you've had politics. We're posting on the "rhizzone" which used to be exactly what I described, many of the posters pretending to be Marxist now were exactly the kind of semi-fascists I described when it was fashionable while I was considered a radical and without the proper ironic humor. Don't act high and mighty when I was the one who put in work to make this place somewhat interesting, unfortunately the fascists are gone but the grudges remain. In 10 years you'll probably be like them and I'll still be defending Marxism so say whatever you want, it doesn't bother me.

babyhueypnewton posted:

shriekingviolet posted:

babyhueypnewton posted:

Thug Lessons was a step we all took and left behind in our journey to being mature communists, the idea that politics is a pathology or that Marxism is merely a step in technological mode of Being or slave morality or wherever semi-fascist critique is a necessary youthful critique that one overcomes to understand Marxism as science.

ok i wrote a bunch of words and then deleted them because it was an emotional reaction and probably came off as needlessly confrontational and i don't actually want to accuse or admonish.

lemme just say it's really fucking creepy when you take a period of your own intellectual development that you now disavow, fine good whatever, then universalize and disperse the blame as "semi-fascist necessary youthfulness" onto an entire community. skin crawlingly creepy. what the fuck dude? i worry about ya.

Please, I was defending Marxism on this forum for longer than you've had politics. We're posting on the "rhizzone" which used to be exactly what I described, many of the posters pretending to be Marxist now were exactly the kind of semi-fascists I described when it was fashionable while I was considered a radical and without the proper ironic humor. Don't act high and mighty when I was the one who put in work to make this place somewhat interesting, unfortunately the fascists are gone but the grudges remain. In 10 years you'll probably be like them and I'll still be defending Marxism so say whatever you want, it doesn't bother me.

lmfao

JohnBeige posted:

Chill

i was the one who was called out, as toyotathon pointed out the difference is i stand up for myself unlike many others who feel intimidated.

c_man posted:

Youve been exactly the same overinflated homophobic sex pest for an entire decade and dozens of posters more politically engaged and educated than you have come through here and done way more to change anyone's politics than your myopic bloviating. The idea that you have any unique personal responsibility for anyones political development here is laughable.

You're the exact kind of liberal who now pretends to be a Marxist I'm talking about, your opinion is of no interest to me. Until people don't allow this kind of personal bullying this place will remain a joke, I'm proud of the number of people who have told me on reddit that I helped them think through Marxism and continually ask me questions.

babyhueypnewton posted:

Please, I was defending Marxism on this forum for longer than you've had politics. We're posting on the "rhizzone" which used to be exactly what I described, many of the posters pretending to be Marxist now were exactly the kind of semi-fascists I described when it was fashionable while I was considered a radical and without the proper ironic humor. Don't act high and mighty when I was the one who put in work to make this place somewhat interesting, unfortunately the fascists are gone but the grudges remain. In 10 years you'll probably be like them and I'll still be defending Marxism so say whatever you want, it doesn't bother me.

dude... come on

Caesura109 posted:

most straight leftist men i know came to marxism from a libertatian or nietzchean phase. male culture is steeped in jingoism, machoism, individualist myths etc, when they are first brcoming politically aware or alienated they seem to be far more likely to gravitate towards fascistic narratives than people who are on the recieving end of that narrative.

my own political development bears out that notion. i can look back at my politics circa high school and recognize a nascent fascism buried under a layer of "woke" libertarianism that really wasn't overmuch shaken by college (i went to a school with a very "hippie" reputation and the most politically vocal professor i met in that time was an ayn rand fanboy, which i now recognize actually isn't an irony at all)

to someone who's never had a material reason to question the received wisdom (e.g., that Marxism leads to Horrors and therefore is disqualified from the running prima facie), the Austrian School might be the first thing you encounter that seems like it actually has a coherent, articulated weltanschauung with some claimed philosophical sophistication that the complacent might never recognize as a shell game. it actually seems to believe in something, and if you're hungry for that in a world of opportunistic and eclectic liberalism, you could just as well fall into that midden

i've mentioned elsewhere that my route to marx wasn't through history or activism, but rather giving Capital an open-minded read with some background in econ and finding the easily dispatched sophistries i'd been primed to expect simply weren't there. what i might not have mentioned is that said reading came at a point where i had been unemployed for most of a year already (with a second to follow) after graduating straight into the jaws of the GFC & long recession. plus by that time i had actually been exposed to a wider sampling of the population than i ever had in my youth, witnessed other struggles, and so on. (i also, for reasons i have difficulty articulating, attribute my political shift in some sense to studying atonal music. no i haven't read adorno)

so, for me, the real conditions absolutely shaped the ideological in a way the latter probably would never have on its own. when i see marx talking about social existence determining social consciousness, or when i see lenin saying sure, some socdem leaders may return to communism, but only a tiny number when taken "in its political, i.e., in its mass aspect," that shit resonates with me pretty significantly. it's frankly kinda scary to contemplate how that bubble felt, in retrospect -- that someone can be objectively functioning as an enemy of humanity and the world at large without having any clue at all that they're doing anything but striving (those so inclined, at least) to live a principled and moral life. that's some dangerous shit.

cars posted:

a liberal raised with bourgeois values has a fascist inside them and they can either fight it every day they're alive, or not

Edited by Constantignoble (March 21, 2019 03:38:54)

Caesura109 posted:

male culture is steeped in jingoism, machoism, individualist myths etc,

Constantignoble posted:

it's frankly kinda scary to contemplate how that bubble felt, in retrospect -- that someone can be objectively functioning as an enemy of humanity and the world at large without having any clue at all that they're doing anything but striving (those so inclined, at least) to live a principled and moral life. that's some dangerous shit.

"a few years ago, one robert byrn, a 40-yo professor of criminal law at fordham university took it upon himself to represent all human fetuses between the fourth and twenty-fourth week of gestation scheduled to be aborted in nyc municipal hospitals. byrn was himself represented by attourney thomas ford, who made the following statement: "the fetus might well be described as an astronaut in a uterine spaceship." As ellen frankfort aptly comments:

"it takes a certain kind of imagination to assume guardianship for something lodged within anothers body--a rather acquisitive proprietary imagination that fits right in with the conception of the woman as a spaceship and the contents of her womb as an astronaut."

the astonishing byrn incident and the analogy made by his attorney merit some attention for the light they throw upon the deceptions of male myth. since an astronaut is perceived as the captain of the "vessel", there is a desire to see the fetus as controlling the woman. moreover, the image of the astronaut in a spaceship is interesting also because in this image the "captain" is very much controlled by other males outside the spaceship (for example, politicians, economists, scientists, flight surgeons, engineers). this makes the analogy particularly "appropriate" in its perverse way, for the fetus is maintained in control of the woman by the males outside (for example, politicians, legislators, priests, doctors, social workers, counselors husbands, "lovers"). mOreover the analogy involves deceptively circular reasoning, making it doubly appropriate in this doublethink context. for here, a biological event--the presence of the fetus in the uterus--is imagined as "like", that is, imitative of, a technological event-the presence of an astronaut in a spaceship.This elicits an obvious question: is the astronaut in the spaceship an attempt to imitate the situation of the fetus in the uterus.

There are clues about the source of this fetal identification syndrome (which is frequently fatal for women unable to obtain abortions) in frankfort's description of byrn as "a childless man who seeks to guard unwanted fetal tissue." males do indeed deeply identify with "unwanted fetal tissue," for they sense as their own condition the role of controller, possessor, inhabitor of women. Draining female energy, the feel "fetal". since this perpetual fetal state is fatal to the Self of the eternal mother (Hostess), males fear women's recognition of this real condition, which would render them infinitely "unwanted". for this attraction/need of males for female energy, seen for what it is is necrophilia--not in the sense of love for actual corpses, but love for those victimised into a state of living death"