#6641
Post rating: +

Horselord posted:

i did read the article back in febuary and it's still a very strange thing to say. in an era where masking fascism in irony is literally in nazi newspapers' writers guides i don't think that kind of joke is a good idea or funny. some things should be left alone


as far as provocations go it's a pretty tame imo, and at least it has a point. i'm not here to defend sakai's sense of humour or even everything he says in that article, but i do take exception to you playing into that kind of bullshit twitter 'gotcha' leftwards-punching discourse. if you're so annoyed at 'read settlers' having become a catchphrase that you're willing to prop up spurious attacks on sakai himself, perhaps you should indeed log off, or at least get the fuck away from what passes for discourse on twitter/facebook

#6642
Post rating: +

Horselord posted:

i did read the article back in febuary and it's still a very strange thing to say. in an era where masking fascism in irony is literally in nazi newspapers' writers guides i don't think that kind of joke is a good idea or funny. some things should be left alone

to be honest i don't have a problem with sakai or his work. whats getting to be annoying is the way that "read settlers" has become a catchphrase for weird radical posing liberals in defence of anticommunist rhetoric from compradors. the solution is probably to log off and organise in real life



he's asking very uncomfortable questions about how fascism presents itself and how it appeals to many people. i don't think he's wrong to do so. this is not a particularly controversial sentiment even outside of maoist theory and within more trendy left theorising

"No, the masses were not deceived, they desired fascism and that is what has to be explained.”

take these from a larger context and what are we left with? what are we discussing? do people accuse d&g of fascism?

#6643
take a shit on the floor
Post rating: ~

Petrol posted:

i'm not here to defend sakai's sense of humour or even everything he says in that article, but i do take exception to you playing into that kind of bullshit twitter 'gotcha' leftwards-punching discourse.



i don't really care that you're mad that i laughed at sakai for making a hitler joke rather than sakai's hitler joke

#6644
take a shit on the floor
Post rating: ~
i don't really care that you're mad that i laughed at sakai for making a hitler joke rather than sakai's hitler joke
#6645
take a shit on the floor
Post rating: ~
maybe people shouldn't make hitler jokes. maybe the time for that is over
#6646
Post rating: +
so is he making hitler jokes or is he giving hitler a "positive review", in your mind? maybe mel brooks shouldn't have written the springtime for hitler songn. maybe hogan's heroes shouldn't exist. all that is a very long way from reading sakai and understanding his basic point.
#6647
take a shit on the floor
Post rating: -

Chthonic_Goat_666 posted:

so is he making hitler jokes or is he giving hitler a "positive review"



"making a hitler joke by giving his book a positive review"

sorry fishmech i will try to be more precise next time

#6648
Post rating: +
you're an idiot.
#6649
Post rating: +
most people here would agree that trump is a more engaging and exciting speaker than hillary clinton. that doesn't mean we agree with his political project or are giving him a "positive review".
#6650
take a shit on the floor
Post rating: -

Chthonic_Goat_666 posted:



try not to fishmech in future. i know this is a forum but it's also 2018 not 2004

#6651
Post rating: ~
i have asbolutely no idea what you're talking about
#6652
Post rating: ~
is referencing fishmech this "log off" thing you're talking about?
#6653
take a shit on the floor
Post rating: ~
remarkable
#6654
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +
i’d ask Hitler to weigh in on irony jokes about Hitler but he hasn’t posted here since january 2017 when he requested someone make him not Hitler anymore. he’s still Hitler
#6655
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: +
Settlers p. 155 - Zionism "is the same virile restoration through mass murder that was so ecstatically praised by Adolf Hitler." VIRILE? So Sakai is in love with Zionism AND Nazism?
#6656
Post rating: ~

Horselord posted:


settle down beavis. defending shitty twitter discourse is not a hill to melt down on

#6657
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +
my bravest take on this is that sakai is wrong, hitler’s book is boring, repetitive and a piece of shit & only moved copies in the inter-war period because of his reputation as a guy who could yell about bolsheviks and jews for hours without stopping
#6658
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: ~

Horselord posted:

i did read the article back in febuary and it's still a very strange thing to say. in an era where masking fascism in irony is literally in nazi newspapers' writers guides i don't think that kind of joke is a good idea or funny. some things should be left alone

It's not a joke. That is how Mein Kampf was perceived by its audience when it was released. That's how it's perceived in the places where it gets mass attention today. It's a bestselling book in the second most populous country on the planet right now. But yes let's just leave it alone.

to be honest i don't have a problem with sakai or his work. whats getting to be annoying is the way that "read settlers" has become a catchphrase for weird radical posing liberals in defence of anticommunist rhetoric from compradors. the solution is probably to log off and organise in real life


Want to give an example of this? Because you sound like a Jacobin editor trying to roll back on some claim like "state senators are workers too"

#6659
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: +

cars posted:

my bravest take on this is that sakai is wrong, hitler’s book is boring, repetitive and a piece of shit & only moved copies in the inter-war period because of his reputation as a guy who could yell about bolsheviks and jews for hours without stopping

Ayn rand is worse, people can get exhilirated over the dumbest fucking shit if it lines up with them getting stuff

#6660
Post rating: ~

cars posted:

my bravest take on this is that sakai is wrong, hitler’s book is boring, repetitive and a piece of shit & only moved copies in the inter-war period because of his reputation as a guy who could yell about bolsheviks and jews for hours without stopping



yea didnt they also give it to like every german married couple as a state gift lol? i've only read excerpted stuff from it myself

#6661
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~
yeah.. I meant before it became a mandatory display item to demonstrate loyalty to the state. and nowadays most of the people who buy it probably never read it, it’s just “important” because germany started and lost ww2. it reads like a self-published 2.99 Amazon e-book
#6662
take a shit on the floor
Post rating: +

swampman posted:

Want to give an example of this? Because you sound like a Jacobin editor trying to roll back on some claim like "state senators are workers too"



sure, here's the last time i noticed it



this person didn't bust out "read settlers" but a bunch of weird "radicals" did in defence of this extremely bad post. there was a very interesting dynamic where the primary defence of this extremely bizzare and ahistorical statement was to accuse anyone who disagreed with it as being a white racist who needs to read settlers (love to be told to read settlers by anticommunists lol). this assumption of being a white american racist was levelled at anyone who hasn't put their census information in their bio, so naturally it landed on a lot of people who weren't. the exact same critique, if posted by someone who'd put their race in their bio or had a non white sounding username, would be ignored

twitter rhetoric is extremely bad and absurd, its full of liberalism, cliques, people who get their politics from memes and weirdos who're super into a "left" racialism and whenever you think "that's too stupid to have happened" it's happened.

Edited by Horselord ()

#6663
Post rating: ~

Horselord posted:

twitter rhetoric is extremely bad and absurd, its full of liberalism, cliques, people who get their politics from memes and weirdos who're super into a "left" racialism and whenever you think "that's too stupid to have happened" it's happened.


correct, which is why it's baffling you'd blame sakai for the way idiots misuse and abuse his work on twitter.

#6664
take a shit on the floor
Post rating: ~
its a good thing i don't and haven't then
#6665
Post rating: ~

Horselord posted:

well i mean

#6666
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: ~

cars posted:

yeah.. I meant before it became a mandatory display item to demonstrate loyalty to the state. and nowadays most of the people who buy it probably never read it, it’s just “important” because germany started and lost ww2. it reads like a self-published 2.99 Amazon e-book


You dont have read a book to ... uh.. to find it exhilirating

#6667
take a shit on the floor
Post rating: ~

Petrol posted:

Horselord posted:
well i mean








sounds like you read it wrong

#6668
Post rating: +
fishmech fishmech fishmech, you are all fishmech none of you are free from being fishmech
#6669
Post rating: +
I encountered the marxism as settler-colonialism critique irl and when I mentioned j.sakai's book they had no idea about it so... I think it's two separate phenomenon
#6670
Post rating: ~

Horselord posted:

swampman posted:

this person didn't bust out "read settlers" but a bunch of weird "radicals" did in defence of this extremely bad post.

.

that would be weird, given that sakai is explicitly a communist and settlers is explicitly marxist. you’re probably just lying.

#6671
Post rating: ~
or even if your not, if there truly is one strange person that you know from the internet who is citing sakai to say communism is settler colonialism, that would be merely, uh, amusing. and ironic. but it wouldn’t make you any less dumb and wrong
#6672
Post rating: ~

Horselord posted:

Petrol posted:

Horselord posted:
well i mean

sounds like you read it wrong


Horselord posted:

i'm not sure in what context its ok to give a mien kampf a positive review


Horselord posted:

perhaps i'm too "off line" to appreciate sarcasm in reviews of hitler's books from weirdos


you posted twitter-inflected snarky nonsense and it didnt fly. instead of backpedaling and accusing everyone else of misunderstanding you, you could just learn from this and not post so badly again

#6673
Post rating: +
*denis needry voice* fishmech! fishmech! we got fishmech here!
#6674
Post rating: +
#6675
Post rating: +

karphead posted:


this is correct. mostly because i don't speak german.

#6676
Post rating: +

Horselord posted:

swampman posted:

Want to give an example of this? Because you sound like a Jacobin editor trying to roll back on some claim like "state senators are workers too"

sure, here's the last time i noticed it



this person didn't bust out "read settlers" but a bunch of weird "radicals" did in defence of this extremely bad post. there was a very interesting dynamic where the primary defence of this extremely bizzare and ahistorical statement was to accuse anyone who disagreed with it as being a white racist who needs to read settlers (love to be told to read settlers by anticommunists lol). this assumption of being a white american racist was levelled at anyone who hasn't put their census information in their bio, so naturally it landed on a lot of people who weren't. the exact same critique, if posted by someone who'd put their race in their bio or had a non white sounding username, would be ignored

twitter rhetoric is extremely bad and absurd, its full of liberalism, cliques, people who get their politics from memes and weirdos who're super into a "left" racialism and whenever you think "that's too stupid to have happened" it's happened.

theres a very long and well documented history of white racism and national chauvinism in the communist movement that you should read about. for some people, encountering certain kinds of communist sects, communism does actually seemt to be a form of settler colonialism.

#6677
Post rating: +
Hitler jokes are pretty good
#6678
Post rating: +

Meursault posted:

Hitler jokes are pretty good


Everyone pretend i posted a youtube compilation of Norm Macdonalds hitler jokes in response here, because it seems to no longer be available.

#6679
Post rating: +

Meursault posted:

Hitler jokes are pretty good


#6680
take a shit on the floor
Post rating: ~

elias posted:

that would be weird, given that sakai is explicitly a communist and settlers is explicitly marxist. you’re probably just lying.



Horselord posted:

(love to be told to read settlers by anticommunists lol)



me: this weird ironic thing happened. someone said "read settlers" in a way that made it clear they hadn't

you: you liar, weird things don't happen. nobody ever pretends to understand things that they don't, especially not on social media