#14361
Post rating: ~

blinkandwheeze posted:

the bourgeois-liberal left is "the left" as such when it is a sole dominant tendency. we all do this when talking about the left in the developed world today. when people decry the lapse of the u.s. left into liberalism or whatever it's not a confusion of categories, it's just colloquial rhetoric


i get all of this, what i'm trying to say is i think this is frankly an arrogant point of view and it's part of the problem. i disagree with the notion that a vital and effective left is waiting to be (re)born on the bourgeois plane and gifted downwards. there's nothing interesting or novel about such a plea as far as i'm concerned.

#14362
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i'm not sure what the alternative you would suggest is. of course a discourse fostered through the leadership of proletarianised and lumpen sectors would be preferable but fascism has risen in the provincial sectors of the developed world because this discourse doesn't exist. the alternative is intervening to hasten this development in spite of your class background or doing nothing.

i don't find his argument novel either but that's also why i found it uncontroversial
#14363
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +
i like the approach of just mocking those on the right instead of "engaging" with their invalid points (all of their points) and reserving argument for those arguing in good faith, which is really just the same thing... the problem with liberals doing it is that they think they're not on the right themselves and also that a willingness to engage in good faith is their own virtue, meaning they end up caving.
#14364
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~
i'd note though that this also allows a lot of ins for left ideas because the same ideology that liberals use to define themselves as the left barrier of allowed discourse sometimes prompts them to break ranks to suggest they're more virtuous in their application of liberalism than their fellows. it's similar to how they've allowed elements of the far right who want to destroy liberalism to leak into mainstream discourse, because they think acting vaguely horrified about them is an argument and because they'll almost always follow up with some of them playing more-liberal-than-thou and tacitly supporting that same movement. i think in the recent past they've probably been more likely to entertain this with attackers to their right than the left for a lot of historical reasons but i think that's also a function of what wins popularity contests and the resurgence of left discourse as a mainstream phenomenon in the West probably means a shift in that too, since liberals have the intense need to believe that they're the preferable option for their own supposed constituencies and that their ideology provides better alternatives to all possible critics, leading to the error of choosing idiot worship of bourgeois science over rigorous practice of the immortal science of marxism-leninism.
#14365
Post rating: ~

blinkandwheeze posted:

i'm not sure what the alternative you would suggest is. of course a discourse fostered through the leadership of proletarianised and lumpen sectors would be preferable but fascism has risen in the provincial sectors of the developed world because this discourse doesn't exist.


define "provincial sectors"

#14366
Post rating: ~
non-urban former industrial towns like those in northern france discussed in the interview
#14367
Post rating: +
I don't usually use forums or Reddit, I usually just post comments on Ancap blogs like Molyneux or Cantwell's blog, but they didn't seem appropriate places to post my story. So here goes, I just wanted to share this with all of you.

Nov 3 I flew to Europe for a Eurotrip type tour. Not a guide or packaged deal, just going around by myself. I paid for half of the trip with the wages I earned over the last two years, my dad paid for the other half. I am 19, I guess that is normal starting college and all. (Before that I worked for my dad's company part time, so I guess you could say he paid for all of it, lol).

I did France and then Italy and then Greece next. I am an Ancap so I wanted to see anarchists in these places. Yes, I know they are different kinds of "anarchists" and not really full anarchists like us. I went to an anarchist book store in Italy and it had a lot of English books, but no Rothbard or Ancap. Like I said, I expected that, not a surprise.

I went to Greece, which everyone knows is famous for its revolutionary anarchism, its economic crisis and everything going on right now. Here I found directions for a local anarchist center. I went and didn't see anybody, but it was covered in graffiti, mostly in Greek so I couldn't read it. Whatever, I started taking pictures. Then some people came out and confronted me.

This should have been my first warning sign something was not right, because photography is not a crime. They were not violent, but they were not friendly, like asking who I was, what I wanted. They all spoke good English actually. Not uncommon in Greece. I said I was a tourist and an anarchist and I just wanted to take pictures. Then they got friendly and told me I should have asked first (but pictures are no NAP violation so I don't know why, but I didn't say anything) and they invited me inside.

We hung out for a while and smoked hash (there is no good dank in Europe as you might find out like in Cali, everyone smokes hash with tobacco which isn't as cool as it sounds). We started talking about politics and anarchism. I was trying to talk about the state, they were like yeah no doubt the state was bad. But they wanted to talk about capitalism, capitalism this and that. This is when we started to get into a debate.

I told them that what they called capitalism is different from the free market. They said capitalism is free markets. And I said I agreed. That is what I am saying. Real capitalism is free markets. And they said yes, that is what we are trying to get rid of. And I said no, but we don't even have that right now. We need more free markets. And everyone at the same time was like "nooo" we are anarchists, we are against capitalism. Anarchists oppose capitalism.

And I said but not anarcho-capitalists. Anarcho-capitalists are the anarchists who support capitalism. I had a fanny pack (yeah, lame I know) for my camera and in that I had this yellow and black bowtie (also super lame, it was a joke but I wasnt wearing it). And I said look, these are the Ancap colors, yellow and black, like versus the communist red and black. Well, these guys had a lot of red and black in the building already so I thought they would get it.

I think that is when it started to get a really bad vibe, really tense in the air. The free market thing was funny, we disagreed but I think they thought I was just confused. Everyone was uncomfortable now. Then someone said markets wont work with democracy. And I said exactly, that's it, democracy is against anarchism. And they kind of agreed, and said yes, we don't have real democracy, just governments, and we needed more democracy. I said no, we need less democracy, democracy is the enemy. And we need to end democracy to have anarchy. Then they were all like "noooo" again. You know that thing people do in groups when everyone all says "nooo" or expresses some disapproval at the same time.

And one of them said "but we do want to stop democracy" and then they kind of spoke back and forth in Greek. I didn't really understand it. And they asked me what I meant.

So I said okay, I had the floor, I was going to tell them about ancapism. And I tried to explain to them some Rothbard and Hoppe. I said the natural order in anarchy is that the best rise to the top, the market picks who is the best. They compete and are peaceful. They said what do we want instead of anarchy. I said we want private owners to own their own land and businesses, and to employ people. They said that is what we have now. I said no, it would be even better. One of the guys said it was like feudalism. And I said it is not feudalism.

Eventually one of the guys spoke up and I thought he was Greek, but he spoke English perfectly so he may have not been. He said he knew what anarcho-capitalism was and that we were basically fascists. He asked me if I thought everything should be private. And I said yes. And he asked me if I thought people were unequal. And I told him yes. And that not everyone would have equal rights. I said everyone has the right to own property and not be done aggression against. But that not everyone had to be treated equally by the owners. He said what about immigrants and racism. And I said that would not happen in a free market, but yes property owners could be racist if they wanted to. They had to respect property.

Then he called me a fascist again, and someone else said I was a fascist. And then they basically all started shouting fascist at me, and one of them grabbed me by the wrists. They pulled me out the door, it was up three floors, and basically drug me down the stairs on my back. It hurt really bad and I remember yelling "you're breaking the NAP" and things like that. "Stop initiating force against me." Then they kicked me around on the ground in the hallway, before they took my camera and threw me outside. I was crying and stuff, I just sat there. I was in shock because it was so sudden. Looking back there were warning signs though.

I think they felt bad for me and gave the camera back, but when I looked later they stole the memory card with all of my Greek photos.

So they initiated force and theft. They broke the NAP. I knew the left anarchists were not real anarchists, but I never knew they would do something that bad.

I wasnt seriously hurt, just kicked around a little, lots of bruises and little cuts. I am fine guys so don't worry. Just needed to share.
#14368
Post rating: ~
love 2 break the NAP, good job euro-anarchists
#14369
Post rating: ~

c_man posted:

about ecofascism



The UK's Soil Association was founded by far-right eugenicist Gerard Wallop.

#14370
Post rating: ~
thought it was Jorian Jenks




...Jorian Jenks
#14371
Post rating: +
Gerard Wallop

Jorian Jenks

#14372
Post rating: +
Gerard Wallop

Jorian Jenks

come back tpaine

#14373
Post rating: +
(im guessing rhizzone has read the first and the third book here.) this month i read:

postcapitalism. i was interested because i wanted to know why mr mason didn't think capitalism could start up another kondratieff wave. i was disappointed with his explanation, but a more sophisticated marxist could probably do something with it. the rest of the book was garbage. however, he presented a very basic model of how information technology is going to fuck up the value of pretty much every single commodity. i think this was correct, but it applies more generally to automation.

how will capitalism end: i thought the introduction and first chapter of this book was interesting as hell, even if i disagree with the 'secular stagnation' thesis. he certainly lays out a depressing vision of our trajectory, assuming we don't have a socialist revolution. the author clearly has sympathy for keynesianism, but he shows that it isn't going to be a way out of the current crisis capitalism was in. there was some other interesting, 'sociological' stuff i guess, about changes in consumer society. like how fordism had mass assembled identical cars, but then in the 80s car manufacturers allowed consumers to customize them and shit or whatever. i'm going to start his 'buying time' to follow up on that & the european debt crisis.

planet of the slums: u already know. go read this book if you haven't.

a very unproductive month of reading. oh well. after i read buying time, im going to read cities under siege, violent borders, and vertical.
#14374
Post rating: ~
is cities under siege worth reading?


anyway, to update - ive been reading a bull semen catalogue
#14375
Post rating: ~
which translations of Hegel's 'phenomenology of spirit' do people read?
#14376
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +

Belphegor posted:

which translations of Hegel's 'phenomenology of spirit' do people read?



best one I've found is Capital by Karl Marx

#14377
Post rating: +

tears posted:

is cities under siege worth reading?



i will tell u at some point in the near future. someone in the guardian called it fearmongering, so it must be good.

#14378
Post rating: ~
just read the introduction, and it seems like it should be good, but at 433 pages its 233 pages too long
#14379
Post rating: +++++

cars posted:

Belphegor posted:
which translations of Hegel's 'phenomenology of spirit' do people read?



best one I've found is Capital by Karl Marx


I tried that but the translator kept translating the word 'geist' as 'bolts of linen'

#14380
[account deactivated]
#14381
Occupied Aztlan
Post rating: +
Endorsing Detroit I do mind dying. If you're not familiar with drum it's a good intro in that org, and gives a window to radical unions. Important imo, since most books on black radicalism miss unions entirely despite being a very real center of black organizing for decades before the civil rights or black liberation movements. hammer and hoe has been recommended a few times on this question as well, you might like it.

I'm reading the new PSL book, Women Fight Back.

#14382
Kurdt
Post rating: +

Belphegor posted:

which translations of Hegel's 'phenomenology of spirit' do people read?


read Hegel's Science of Logic instead imo

#14383
mt.real
Post rating: +
i read this today https://hueypnewtongunclub.org/about
#14384
Post rating: +
read Lenin's notebook on Clausewitz's "On War". its pretty good and contains this excellent exchange:

Clausewitz: War may be a thing which sometimes is more war, sometimes less
Lenin: Dialectics
#14385
Post rating: +
been doing lots of reading about doing war

Currently reading
Clausewitz – On War
this owns so much
Walter Darnell jacobs – Frunze: The Soviet Clausewitz 1885-1925
This sucks but its the only english language book on Frunze I could find

A bunch of articles on clausewitz and war and marxism like this one:
Lenin and Clausewitz: The Militarization of Marxism, 1914-1921


Also attn Marlax69: I read the first 100 pages of Cities under siege, it was a lot worse than I expected, I wanted a book about cities under siege, but instead the duder who wrote it seemed more concerned with showing off how much pomo wank he'd read. That and he needed an editor to cross out half the words. Maybe ill go back and finish it later.

And I also picked up various old af books that talk about old wars:
Livy – The War with Hannibal
Caesar – The Civil War
Caesar – Gallic War
Thucydides – The History of the Peloponnesian War
Tacitus – The Annals of Imperial Rome
Suetonius – The Twelve Caesars

Looking forward to endlessly putting off reading them

war

w a r
#14386
The chickens always come home
Post rating: ~
Galloway talks to a douchebag about Australian education and turn away from post-Marxism of Laclau et al http://www.boundary2.org/2017/04/alexander-r-galloway-an-interview-with-mckenzie-wark/
#14387
The chickens always come home
Post rating: ~
Also Kalyan Sanyal's Rethinking Capitalist Development. The introduction covers a lot of ground including some critique of Gibson-Graham.
#14388
Post rating: ~

tears posted:

been doing lots of reading about doing war

Currently reading
Clausewitz – On War
this owns so much
Walter Darnell jacobs – Frunze: The Soviet Clausewitz 1885-1925
This sucks but its the only english language book on Frunze I could find

A bunch of articles on clausewitz and war and marxism like this one:
Lenin and Clausewitz: The Militarization of Marxism, 1914-1921


Also attn Marlax69: I read the first 100 pages of Cities under siege, it was a lot worse than I expected, I wanted a book about cities under siege, but instead the duder who wrote it seemed more concerned with showing off how much pomo wank he'd read. That and he needed an editor to cross out half the words. Maybe ill go back and finish it later.

And I also picked up various old af books that talk about old wars:
Livy – The War with Hannibal
Caesar – The Civil War
Caesar – Gallic War
Thucydides – The History of the Peloponnesian War
Tacitus – The Annals of Imperial Rome
Suetonius – The Twelve Caesars

Looking forward to endlessly putting off reading them

war

w a r



yes yes, but what is it good for?

#14389
Post rating: ~

drcat posted:

i read this today https://hueypnewtongunclub.org/about



i think those guys are transphobic & hoteps or whatever

sign me up in the babyhueypnewtongunclub

#14390
Post rating: +

spectralmarx posted:

Galloway talks to a douchebag about Australian education and turn away from post-Marxism of Laclau et al http://www.boundary2.org/2017/04/alexander-r-galloway-an-interview-with-mckenzie-wark/



That person really needs to read Divided World, Divided Class instead of all this junk about cyborgs.

#14391
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: ~
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Nwude
#14392
Post rating: ~

babyhueypnewton posted:

spectralmarx posted:

Galloway talks to a douchebag about Australian education and turn away from post-Marxism of Laclau et al http://www.boundary2.org/2017/04/alexander-r-galloway-an-interview-with-mckenzie-wark/

That person really needs to read Divided World, Divided Class instead of all this junk about cyborgs.


book unironically called gamer theory O_o

#14393
Post rating: +
i support the liquiation of the gamers as a class,thats my gamer theoury
#14394
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +

gyrofry posted:

Belphegor posted:

which translations of Hegel's 'phenomenology of spirit' do people read?

read Hegel's Science of Logic instead imo



yeah thats good. also the lecture collections known as aesthetics and philosophy of history which help show why marx was needed. phenomenology of spirit is imo what they give to college freshmen to convince them not to read any more hegel or marx etc

#14395
Post rating: +
well i just watched battle of chile. it's pretty great. i don't know how I missed it 7 or 8 years ago when I was fixated on the period.

The Insurrection of the Bourgeoisie
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b5GeEzBKGsQ

The Coup d'état
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d4I5LZbNbZs

Popular Power
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B_psW1O0WIk



#14396
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~
Chile provides an excellent early example of the template that has been adapted and applied to turn popular actions around the world into "color revolutions" in the service of U.S./NATO foreign policy. In that case it was mobilization of crowds of bourgeois and petit-bourgeois women to bang on pots and pans in the streets to form a media image of women saving their starving (not really) families from the Soviet-created (not really) planned economy.
#14397
Nice grasses
Post rating: ~
hey, does anyone of you know a book about soviet archaeology or at least concerning study of history in the ussr? i'm writing a thing for uni about it and recommendations would be appreciated
#14398
Post rating: +

kruki posted:

hey, does anyone of you know a book about soviet archaeology or at least concerning study of history in the ussr? i'm writing a thing for uni about it and recommendations would be appreciated

bhpn coincidentally asked a very similar question about a month back:

https://rhizzone.net/forum/topic/182/?page=359#post-341893

tears posted this:

https://www.academia.edu/944081/Marxism

I have "Archaeology in the USSR" (1955, translation from 1961) by A.L Mongait which has a pretty decent intro chapter.

"Soviet archaeology : schools, trends, and history" by Klejn is non-marxist but the first ~30 pages are available for free on google books. You can use it for important names etc for further research. Klejn mentions V.F Gening and A.D Pryakhin as contemporaries who have both written books in the 1980s on soviet archaeology in "the spirit of official Soviet ideology". whether these books have ever been translated or not idk (probably not)

Edited by Chthonic_Goat_666 ()

#14399
Nice grasses
Post rating: ~
thanks, that book by keljn is exactly what i was looking for. too bad it isn't available in full online
#14400
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +

kruki posted:

too bad it isn't available in full online


/