#13481
I'm reading Lampe's Yugoslavia As History beause redmaistre mentioned it itt. It's a typical bourgeois history, some things are useful and some are not. But trying to understand the Yugoslavian economy from bourgeois history/economics is like trying to understand the solar system from a geocentric theory. Maybe it will get some stuff right by accident but the fundamental theory is so broken that everything should be suspected. Many of these broken theories, like 'efficiency', 'growth', 'incentive', 'planning complexity', etc. are regularly posted here by certain trolls and upvoted by the way so this ideology is by no means harmless.
#13482
Also so I don't sound grumpy I'm also reading Yaffe's The Economics of Revolution and it's excellent, really delving into Marxist economics and debates within it during the 60s as actually expressed in reality.
#13483
I'm reading Workers' Councils by Anton Pannekoek. Here's a passage on the Russian revolution that I imagine the 'zone will have something to say about.

So the light darkened that had illuminated the world; the masses that had hailed it were left in blacker night, either in discouragement turning away from the fight, or struggling along to find new and better ways. The Russian revolution first had given a mighty impulse to the fight of the working class, by its mass direct actions and by its new council forms of organisation -- this was expressed in the widespread rise of the communist movement all over the world. But when then the revolution settled into a new order, a new class rule, a new form of government, State capitalism under dictatorship of a new exploiting class, the Communist Party needs must assume an ambiguous character. Thus in the course of ensuing events it became most ruinous to the working class fight, that can only live and grow in the purity of clear thought plain deeds and fair dealings. By its idle talk of world revolution it hampered the badly needed new orientation of means and aims. By fostering and teaching under the name of discipline the vice of submissiveness, the chief vice the workers must shake off, by suppressing each trace of independent critical thought, it prevented the growth of any real power of the working class. By usurping the name communism for its system of workers' exploitation and its policy of often cruel persecution of adversaries, it made this name, till then expression of lofty ideals, a byword, an object of aversion and hatred even among workers. In Germany, where the political and economic crises had brought the class antagonisms to the highest pitch, it reduced the hard class fight to a puerile skirmish of armed youths against similar nationalist bands. And when then the tide of nationalism ran high and proved strongest, large parts of them, only educated to beat down their leaders' adversaries, simply changed colours. Thus the Communist Party by its theory and practice largely contributed to prepare the victory of fascism.

#13484
Besides the obvious ridiculousness of it (there are probably 100 left-communists in the world so clearly praxis has shown that the working class rejects Marxist-Leninism)(state capitalism is an incoherent concept as is bureaucracy as a new class by Marx's own definitions)(the guys who beat fascism are actually the ones who made it victorious o_O)(anti-fascist action is a purile skirmish of armed youths what a cool guy)(everything good about the Russian Revolution was actually what I believe and everything bad was what Lenin believed but this is totally not a religion)

it's not clear what is worth reading in such writing. Like, here's Paul Mattick on left communism:

So far the main functions of these organisations consisted of critique. However, this critique is no longer directed against the capitalism that existed at the time of Marx. It includes a critique of that transformation of capitalism which appears under the name of ‘socialism’. Critique and propaganda are the only practical activities possible today, and their apparent fruitlessness only reflects an apparent non-revolutionary situation. The decline of the old labour movement, involving the difficulty and even impossibility of bringing forth a new one, is a lamentable prospect only for the old labour movement; it is neither hailed nor bewailed by the Groups of Council Communists, but simply recognised as a fact...

The Groups of Council Communists recognise also that no real social change is possible under present conditions unless the anti-capitalistic forces grow stronger than the pro-capitalist forces, and that it is impossible to organise anti-capitalistic forces of such a strength within capitalistic relations. From the analysis of present-day society and from a study of previous class struggles it concludes that spontaneous actions of dissatisfied masses will, in the process of their rebellion, create their own organisations, and that these organisations, arising out of the social conditions, alone can end the present social arrangement.



So we can't do anything politically, we can't argue for anything just critique other leftist groups, we can't predict anything because it's entirely spontaneous, and any organizations that do arise are wrong unless they entirely reject Leninism. Why would anyone even be interested in such an ideology? It's for losers.

#13485
welcome to the rhizzone professor chomsky
#13486

infantile_disorder posted:

I'm reading Workers' Councils by Anton Pannekoek. Here's a passage on the Russian revolution that I imagine the 'zone will have something to say about.

So the light darkened that had illuminated the world; the masses that had hailed it were left in blacker night, either in discouragement turning away from the fight, or struggling along to find new and better ways. The Russian revolution first had given a mighty impulse to the fight of the working class, by its mass direct actions and by its new council forms of organisation -- this was expressed in the widespread rise of the communist movement all over the world. But when then the revolution settled into a new order, a new class rule, a new form of government, State capitalism under dictatorship of a new exploiting class, the Communist Party needs must assume an ambiguous character. Thus in the course of ensuing events it became most ruinous to the working class fight, that can only live and grow in the purity of clear thought plain deeds and fair dealings. By its idle talk of world revolution it hampered the badly needed new orientation of means and aims. By fostering and teaching under the name of discipline the vice of submissiveness, the chief vice the workers must shake off, by suppressing each trace of independent critical thought, it prevented the growth of any real power of the working class. By usurping the name communism for its system of workers' exploitation and its policy of often cruel persecution of adversaries, it made this name, till then expression of lofty ideals, a byword, an object of aversion and hatred even among workers. In Germany, where the political and economic crises had brought the class antagonisms to the highest pitch, it reduced the hard class fight to a puerile skirmish of armed youths against similar nationalist bands. And when then the tide of nationalism ran high and proved strongest, large parts of them, only educated to beat down their leaders' adversaries, simply changed colours. Thus the Communist Party by its theory and practice largely contributed to prepare the victory of fascism.

Citation needed (not from you, from Dr. Pancake)

#13487
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#13488
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#13489

babyhueypnewton posted:

I'm reading Lampe's Yugoslavia As History beause redmaistre mentioned it itt. It's a typical bourgeois history, some things are useful and some are not. But trying to understand the Yugoslavian economy from bourgeois history/economics is like trying to understand the solar system from a geocentric theory. Maybe it will get some stuff right by accident but the fundamental theory is so broken that everything should be suspected. Many of these broken theories, like 'efficiency', 'growth', 'incentive', 'planning complexity', etc. are regularly posted here by certain trolls and upvoted by the way so this ideology is by no means harmless.

Yugoslavia had Milton Friedman consult on their economic model which is all I need to know about Titoite revisionism. Although his observations on the model were correct.... Paradox.

#13490
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#13491
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#13492
I'm still taking that History of Cuba class. Now I'm read Dancing With Cuba by Alma Guillermoprieto. Its her memoir as a bougie avant garde dancer that went to dance in Havana in 1970. The central dramatic theme in the book is that she "struggles" with the fact that the Cuban Revolution values its political dedication to socialism more than bourgeois individual pursuits like avant-garde dance.

The seriousness with which the class takes this dilemma makes me feel like I'm some autistic Stalinist lunatic.

Edited by walkinginonit ()

#13493
i think they adapted that book into a dirty dancing sequel
#13494
avant-garde dance isn't bourgeois. it's got vanguard right in the name.
#13495

walkinginonit posted:

I'm still taking that History of Cuba class. Now I'm read Dancing With Cuba by Alma Guillermoprieto. Its her memoir as a bougie avant garde dancer that went to dance in Havana in 1970. The central dramatic theme in the book is that she "struggles" with the fact that the Cuban Revolution values its political dedication to socialism more than bourgeois individual pursuits like avant-garde dance.

The seriousness with which the class takes this dilemma makes me feel like I'm some autistic Stalinist lunatic.


this is why one should never, ever trust an "artist activist." whatever they might claim their creed to be, its shitty liberal values all the way down and they'll backstab you in the blink of an eye for the stupidest reasons

#13496
picked up a haul of books on allende and chile on latest charity shop hunt. reading "an inside view... Allende's Chile" - Edward Boorstein. havent read enough to make a realjudgement, but boorstein was a financial advisor to allende and a marxist, tho a trot i think, but so far it seems good and full of cia hate, looking forward to reading an inside view on the failiure to educate and arm the people in defense of socialism. maybe itll turn out to be not very good, guess thats y im reding it

rip comrade allande and the other victims of fascism in chile

Edited by tears ()

#13497
im still reading capital volume 3 and its getting better and better, hoo boy
#13498
reading night vision
http://m21.armexploitednations.net/~library/~/night-vision.pdf

read Long Live the Victory of Peoples War yesterday, so i want some insight on where it all went wrong
#13499
this was a nice little book too
http://collections.mun.ca/PDFs/radical/OurFlagStaysRed.pdf

very simple and clear, memoirs of building up the communist party in britain from the 30s, encompassing anti fascist fighting, putting down roots in the community thru housing struggle, ww2 in london and elections/council work thereafter
#13500
im getting bored of mason and dixon and i might just leave it for now and replace it with some octavia butler???
#13501
Found a great book: The Shadow of Yalta: a report - Wojciech Roszkowski, a MEP and fascist pretending to be an economist and historian

Great bit of arch-revisionism that hits all the bingo squares (invasion of poland, USSR-Nazi "alliance", 100 million dead, katyn, stalin the monster, evils of communism, plucky polish fascists etc etc) but reading it without extreme anger is p difficult.
#13502
im reading jonathan franzen.
#13503
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#13504
i am reading a lot of historical materialism - Passages from Antiquity to Feudalism, and Lineages of the Absolutist State, both by Perry Anderson.

Also the Peasant War in Germany by Engels is good. Anderson makes the point in his books that Engels was better at history writing than Marx, despite Marx's obvious supremacy in the theory department.
#13505

glomper_stomper posted:

also i don't have a goodreads account. fuck that


i used to

#13506
i started Capital Vol.1 recently and will be watching the David Harvey lectures along with it to help me out. he was a big help with the algebra-textbook vibes i got from parts of the first chapter, anyway. wish me luck
#13507
i finished mason & dixon and it was fun. it seemed to be groping towards a political point but it didnt seem very developed. imo it mostly amounted to following up a funny antic with "and also there were slaves". it was pretty funny tho. now reading octavia butler stuff

e: im sure someone who knows pynchon more could school me on stuff i missed there, im sure there was lots. it took me so long to get through that im sure a lot went under my radar

Edited by c_man ()

#13508
also capital vol 3 continues to own
#13509

glomper_stomper posted:

the first volume of class struggles in the ussr was excellent. bettelheim contextualizes, elaborates, and criticizes a lot of the bolshevik party's ideological composition and transformations during the early development of the soviet government in a particularly cogent way that i haven't read in such extensive form before and one that likely only lives on in samir amin's writing.

I got this out of the library and it's interesting so far. I haven't read a super lot about the early USSR but I realized it was mostly because I dislike the fact that a lot of groups in Canada I used to follow would talk almost entirely about 1917-1924 and then the Spanish Revolution, so it always seemed sort of goony to me. Then I was sort of put off by the recent Kautskyist trend, although after learning more about Lih's recent work I think he is much better than some of the people who lean on him. It does seem like I'd have to settle some questions about the Soviet and Chinese experience before I'd have much useful to say about Canada...

#13510
I had a good reads account where I reviewed every dragon lance spin off book and most of the piers Anthony sex pun books as a joke or "bit" but 1 day I looked at my book list and it depressed me so I deleted it.
#13511
Start a new one.
#13512
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#13513
glad its not just me. ill probably come back to GR at some point but im taking a pynchon break for a while
#13514

glomper_stomper posted:

it's the same shit in against the day. for all the scenes of destruction, class struggle, and social decay, there are at least 20 star trek references in between them.


There were Star Trek references in that book? I didn't even know, it seemed mostly "sober" with some magic/science elements mixed in to me. In fact it's my favorite Pynchon

#13515
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#13516
oh I don't know any Star Trek so maybe that's how I'd miss it

what like traveling through the interior of the earth?
#13517
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#13518
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#13519
https://twitter.com/cuttlefish_btc/status/700826096271396864
#13520
Dragonball Z
Pynchon commands at least the very basics of Dragonball Z's plot, as evidence by the grouping of Goku with his son Gohan within a comma, plus the title of "Prince" Vegeta. Someone who knew absolutely jack about the show would have written, "including Vegeta, Goku, Gohan, Zarbon, and others."