conec posted:

Red_Canadian posted:

conec posted:

ya its good that ppl are talking about capitalism being bad even if they are wedarted bern bros yet people have short attention spans, and after the election is over with less people will be disgruntled with capitalism and most will go back to loving capitalism a lot. luring liberal friends into socialist thought is only working if they are naturally very left leaning anyway. otherwise it`s like a hare krishna trying to make u eat their blessed vegan cookies and buy a copy of the bhagavad gita

Sorry, but what the hell? Are people just born left-leaning, and if they aren't, they never will be? Certainly there has been a lot of attempted programming of people, but isn't that the idea behind re-education camps? Something would have to change, for people to change their focus. I'm not denying the existence of revolutionary waves, and that people may grow more complacent after the election, but that's exactly what I'm talking about. That's the point of establishing contact, so we can further radicalize them. I think half of us here know people can be radicalized, since we all saw how laissez faire affected that community.



well, no, no one comes out of the womb with political beliefs. i like when genocide scholars think they are being profound when they ask individuals if they would kill baby hitler... corny much? but i digress, the popularly accepted notion is that we form our political beliefs through our socialization - and a considerably influential portion of that process is happening in our youth. where you are from, your parents' beliefs (their education level, income level, careers), your religion, etc etc.

for example: i might encounter a comely girl who wears nice clothes and seems to have a good sense of humor, but if she`s in her twenties and the literature she enjoys is liberal arts freshman reading (locke, adam smith, etc) then i will not be successful in having her "convert" to socialism when she spends her time posting libertarian memes on facebook or whatever. her politics will more or less stay the same for a long time, probably.

if someone grows up going to church every wednesday and every sunday - if their parents liked reagan and bush, they are less likely to be like "hmm... karl marx? seems legit". they`re more likely to have weird christian ideas infused with shallow fox news generalizations ingrained in them. introducing a rightist to socialist ideas does little but repulse them. if they even know who stalin is, they will be like "ummm... wasn't he an evil dictator who killed millions of people?". though, i`m not suggesting that if your parents are neocons, you won`t be a leftist (i speak from experience). i do think, though, if someones' parents were openly anti-bush around them, they are much more likely to jump on board with socialist thought, granted that they at least possess some small propensity toward philosophical sh`t.

in general - no one gives a sh`t about this stuff. for example, while studying in germany, i had a classmate from ireland - he was majoring in economics. he still had no idea what socialization (of industry) meant. when millennials are surveyed about socialism, the findings suggest that they don't know what socialism is. they don't care, either, you aren't Socrates - you don't possess Jim Jones charisma, you aren`t going to drag anyone out from a proverbial cave. a majority of baby boomers aren't even sure what the cold war was. seriously, it sounds made up but it's true... like... maybe 1 in 100 young people are willing to get into marxism/communism out of the blue. *maybe*

obviously i'm really pessimistic and i have no interest in joining student groups or trying to start an org or whatever. i do think it's good that there is optimism out there, and efforts to spread socialist thought. all i was really saying is.. unless the people you are linking up with are already left-leaning, then it seems like it would go in one ear and out the other.

tl;dr: organizing is hard, why bother

swampman posted:

how did this other poster get their post in before mine? this is infuriating

dont hate please

Urbandale posted:

How many of yall were libertarians before LF. I'll admit I was.

i was a garden variety liberal who joined the peace corps

Urbandale posted:

How many of yall were libertarians before LF. I'll admit I was.

i was a "libertarian socialist".

overall i feel noam chomsky did me a service by having a pretty refutable position in saying "all of marxism/dialectics is dumb and i don't get it", instead of the more annoying nuanced ultra-left positions like "engels changed what marx wrote", "you all interpret marx wrong", "lenin didnt listen to his own pronouncements", and other fun arguments.

coming from a pretty blank slate left me open to orthodox marxism-leninism/mtw instead of all this scar tissue built up from crypto trotskyist/anarchist beliefs

Themselves posted:

Urbandale posted:

How many of yall were libertarians before LF. I'll admit I was.

i was a "libertarian socialist".

overall i feel noam chomsky did me a service by having a pretty refutable position in saying "all of marxism/dialectics is dumb and i don't get it", instead of the more annoying nuanced ultra-left positions like "engels changed what marx wrote", "you all interpret marx wrong", "lenin didnt listen to his own pronouncements", and other fun arguments.

coming from a pretty blank slate left me open to orthodox marxism-leninism/mtw instead of all this scar tissue built up from crypto trotskyist/anarchist beliefs

this was me but more on the 'libertarian' side. that's why I'll always have a soft spot for the Chomskers, he is perfect for labor aristocrat Amerikkkans to begin the transition to scientific Marxism-Leninism

Themselves posted:

babyhueypnewton posted:

that's why I'll always have a soft spot for the Chomskers, he is perfect for labor aristocrat Amerikkkans to begin the transition to scientific Marxism-Leninism

i'll never forget when i was trying to apply to do political canvassing in Berkeley and had to interview. i figured i had to show some leftist 'chops, and not wanting to scare them with marx, i thought some old chomsky would be a nice refresher for the interviewer.

i remember saying something like, "america shouldnt have violated pakistani soveriegnty when we went in for bin laden" ( https://chomsky.info/201105__ /)

well i got laughed out of there pretty quick

DAMN SON U VIOLATED

conec posted:

animedad posted:
politics is really hard. I'd almost rather do anything else, but you kinda have to leave your brain trash at the door and try to participate


i have social autism and i would rather play maplestory and eat seaweed snacks

does maplestory still exist?? one of my friends 10 years ago was fucking addicted to it like crack

i can only talk politics w someone if they aren`t interested in being my personal friend. intimacy is so gross.. fuck.. imagine being at a protest and breathing in every 1`s hot breath, like, what did they just eat? a submarine sandwich w a dog turd inside it? feeling their body heat... fuck that... take your B.O. home please... i hate punks who have little rat tails, i hate idiots who have patches on their jean jacket, i hate guys who tuck their jeans into their boots... i hate girls who wear crop tops, i hate guys with beards combined with trendy hair cuts... i hate people who dress in techno clothes or have grimes haircuts... i hate it all. i hate hipsters. the only student i ever talk about political stuff with at school is a gay guy with no friends because he is a gamer and has a speech impediment.

ah yes, all entirely reasonable, if u were any other poster nobody would have a mocking comment to make about any of this

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