#561
Occupied Aztlan
Post rating: ~

methlabretriever posted:

i guess my definition would be something along the lines of the TNCC is above national and comprador bourgeoisie because they can extend their reach and influence beyond national boundaries. they are the highest form of bourgeoisie, if you will



every capitalist can reach beyond national borders, what do you think the triangle trade was

Edited by Urbandale ()

#562
Post rating: -
untrue. national and comprador bourgeoisie are constrained by national borders
#563
Post rating: +
Doubt there can be a "real" transnational bourgeois till there is a transnational state. And not just any conceivable transnational state, but one that is so structured as to oblige the bourgeoisie to organize itself as a distinct and self-conscious institutional interest group, as in the case of the aristocracy of the old regime.

Edited by RedMaistre ()

#564
Post rating: +

methlabretriever posted:

untrue. national and comprador bourgeoisie are constrained by national borders



Being based within national boundaries is not the same as being unable to act outside of them.

Otherwise, under this definition of "transnational", the British Raj coudn't have be British because it existed outside of the UK.

Edited by RedMaistre ()

#565
Occupied Aztlan
Post rating: ~

methlabretriever posted:

untrue. national and comprador bourgeoisie are constrained by national borders



oh man wait til crow sees this

#566
Post rating: ~
trying to argue earnestly with mustang probably isnt the best use of your time
#567
Post rating: ~
Beggars can't be choosers/Man can't live by funny meme jokes alone.
#568
Occupied Aztlan
Post rating: +
i dont think its mustang its just someone whos never read any theory and thus been forced to come up with their own eclectic understanding of what socialism is supposed to be. you come across this a lot with candidates, people that want to join orgs. its a good thing, it means that youre not just attracting people who quote marx and shit but regular people as well, its just that its incumbent on the education department to force them to question their beliefs and introduce them to structured, critical thinking.
#569
Post rating: +
Department of Marxist Education Department
#570
Post rating: ~

Urbandale posted:

its incumbent on the education department to force them


catchphrase

#571
Post rating: +

Urbandale posted:


maybe the RSU could hold a fundraiser to buy a microphone

#572
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +

methlabretriever posted:

The West however seems to have begun to change their stance wrt to ISIS and has begun to damage/destroy their oil infrastructure



you mean... syria's infrastructure?

#573
Post rating: +
rather than a TNCC it may be more useful to speak of the existence of a contemporary aristocracy with specific, limited transnational characteristics. i am not well enough read to know if there is anything which deals with this properly and would love some suggestions. to give a better idea what i mean, the names on the chart i posted on the last page would generally be members. more haute than haute
#574
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +
arguing with mustang is okay imo because it reveals the insanity of liberalism
#575
Post rating: +
If it is Stang, let me again express my appreciation for the copypasta you sent me:

"I hole-hardedly agree, but allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite. So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality. I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go. Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the facts. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it’s a peach of cake."

Because that's my writing style to a T.
#576
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: +

cars posted:

methlabretriever posted:

The West however seems to have begun to change their stance wrt to ISIS and has begun to damage/destroy their oil infrastructure

you mean... syria's infrastructure?

Syria's got a... infrastructer??? Baha. haha. That stinky place has been invaded by every evil empire of the history of the earth. Bombed, naded to cinders. Those backward ass tribal hill people havent seen a day without heartbreak since the big ass bang. Look at any picture of the region, civilization, what civilzation? Lol, what fuck is a "Syria" anyway

#577
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +
in order to believe the obama administration's current line on Syria, you have to believe they have only been recently & reluctantly forced to bomb the shit out of Syria & destroy Syria's future economic power & send soldiers to kill Syrians in Syria and various other things they have been loudly trying to get American voters to support since years before "ISIS" existed. you have to pretend Syrian refugees in Europe mean Hitler is about to bomb Pearl Harbor. you have to pretend obama threatening the Syrian state for the millionth time today is a double-secret means to defeating a purported foe that depends on the weakening, de-recognizing & overthrow of that same Syrian state for victory. you have to not only forget everything the Obama White House has done and said about Syria in the very recent past, you have to forget the exact parallel to the people within the Bush administration and Iraq, and even some liberals I know are having a hard time with that by this point, no matter how many dead kids they put on CNN.

and if you have a hard time believing the line, you begin to start asking: well if these insurgent guys were fighting a war against the Syrian government back then... while also fighting al-Qaeda for us... right next to weaklings who were doing a very bad job of the exact same tasks but were likely receiving Western weapons, money and intelligence support at the least... is the office of president of the U.S., which can fight wars by itself by signing secret papers at midnight, known for keeping its hands tied in that sort of situation? out of sheer Free Syrian principle? how about its intelligence services? the DoD? State? do these guys seem like the people to pick Charlie Brown's crappy Christmas tree and sing lu lu lu while some foreign leader they don't like still breathes? the Bush administration didn't have to orchestrate 9/11. all it had to do was orchestrate a half-hearted fraud over supposed nuclear weapons in another place where the Western press mostly wasn't allowed, and that was back when the Western press was still paying attention.
#578
chickeon
Post rating: ~
is there two different RSU channels on youtube e: apparently yes there's youtube.com/user/RevStudentsUnion and youtube.com/user/UVURSU ??
#579
Post rating: ~

methlabretriever posted:

Crow posted:

methlabretriever posted:

i think that's their goal, right? The West however seems to have begun to change their stance wrt to ISIS and has begun to damage/destroy their oil infrastructure.

i know, that's an old article. they just started bombing isis` oil infrastructure recently



True, it *is* an old article, from the same day you posted this post, which was yesterday. Old!

#580
Post rating: +
[Old lady voice]

The national and comprador bourgeoisie have been sealed in their borders by the unspeakable might of the Trans National Capitalist Class.. But even the Nationless, Nameless Ones know they will someday break out of their crystal prisons... Will they make foreign investments left and right?... Will they be backed by savage hordes of National Armies? Will they rely on national chauvinism to serve their unknown interests? The world shudders to think of the implications..

[Slow pan of a Pelican stuffing Imperialism: The Highest Stage of Capitalism directly down its gullet]

Edited by Crow ()

#581
Post rating: ~

wikipedia:

The transnational capitalist class (TCC or TNC), also known as the transnational capitalist network (TCN), in neo-Gramscian and other Marxian-influenced analyses of international political economy and globalization, is the global social stratum that controls supranational instruments of the global economy such as transnational corporations and political organs such as the World Trade Organization. In other words, it is "that segment of the world bourgeoisie that represents transnational capital". It is characteristically cosmopolitan and unconstrained by national boundaries.




The concept of globalization propounded here rejects both state-centrism (realism) and globalism (the end of the state). The transnational conception of globalization postulates the existence of a global system. Its basic units of analysis are transnational practices (TNP), practices that cross-state boundaries but do not originate with state agencies or actors. Analytically, TNPs operate in three spheres, the economic, the political, and the cultural-ideological.


https://www.globalpolicy.org/globalization/defining-globalization/27656-the-transnational-capitalist-class-and-the-discourse-of-globalization.html

most if not all major Western corporations have sections of their corporation structure dedicated to producing and reproducing these 3 spheres across the globe

#582
Post rating: ~
crow said it much better than me
#583
Post rating: +
catchphrase
#584
Occupied Aztlan
Post rating: ~

methlabretriever posted:

crow said it much better than me



Crow was mocking your antimarxist analysis

#585
Post rating: ~
how so?
#586
hi
Post rating: +
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/iraqis-think-the-us-is-in-cahoots-with-isis-and-it-is-hurting-the-war/2015/12/01/d00968ec-9243-11e5-befa-99ceebcbb272_story.html

lol
#587
hi
Post rating: +

HenryKrinkle posted:

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-israel-buys-most-oil-smuggled-from-isis-territory-report-1001084873https://archive.is/yrRCS


see also:

http://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/print/b58eb80f-615f-4ffe-965d-5928921bb374/6dd14b3f-8a06-4e6f-8041-903f71012947
https://archive.is/o3FV4

#588
Occupied Aztlan
Post rating: ~

methlabretriever posted:

how so?



because according to your analysis colonialism can only be undertaken by transnational capitalists. thats why he referenced doing away with lenin's imperialism. or just context, crow is ML, not some post-marxist going on about globalization as if its a new phenomenon

#589
Post rating: ~
all a transnational capitalist class is is a faction of the bourgeoisie that influences economics, politics, and ideology beyond its national borders.
#590
Occupied Aztlan
Post rating: ~
sorry dude, no its not. you should read the theorists expounding the thing you supposedly support like sklair. at the very least read robinson
#591
Post rating: ~
but yeah, tncc was developed by gramsci and is very frankfoot schhool so. idk perhaps there only is national and compador bourgeoise
#592
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: ~

methlabretriever posted:

but yeah, tncc was developed by gramsci and is very frankfoot schhool so. idk perhaps there only is national and compador bourgeoise

Yeah. Ydk.

#593
Post rating: ~
Ydk?
#594
Post rating: ~

methlabretriever posted:

all a transnational capitalist class is is a faction of the bourgeoisie that influences economics, politics, and ideology beyond its national borders.


#595
Occupied Aztlan
Post rating: ~

methlabretriever posted:

but yeah, tncc was developed by gramsci and is very frankfoot schhool so. idk perhaps there only is national and compador bourgeoise



sorry dude, again youre wrong. gramsci had fuck all to say about this. he was dead long before it was proposed and as a leninist he would have laughed at the concept.

one of the problems with writing to get through censors is that your later interpreters will take your positions and run in whatever direction they want

#596
Post rating: ~
ah oh, my bad
#597
Post rating: +
someone just tell us what the right opinion is
#598
Occupied Aztlan
Post rating: +
no TNCC is required to explain anything today. capitalism leads to concentration of capital into fewer and fewer hands due to economies of scale being more efficient than individual capitalist firms (much like capitalist firms are more efficient than artisanal production). lenin's imperialism covers how this leads to the creation of finance capital, and with today's largely-global stagnation of profitability (explained by marx's 'tendency of the rate of profit to fall') capitalists are faced with fewer areas in which they can maintain themselves. hence globally heightened tensions between imperialist countries (lenin's inter-imperialist conflict) and austerity, as there are fewer and fewer resources remaining to exploit. this doesnt mean that all large capitalists are fighting all the time, they join forces when their goals match, but this is occurring less frequently as they are left without a common enemy due to the fall of the soviet union and the integration, however uneven, of chinese socialism into world capitalism. from the end of WW2 to the end of the cold war, the US has enjoyed being the preeminent imperialist power. the 'end of history' is over, and a multi-polar world is being created again by germany and france (and their respective capitalist institutions). this erosion of us imperial power explains why the us has leaned on fostering state-instability in targeted countries order to achieve policy goals. they can no longer rely as heavily on the us military as a stabilizing factor (even if one can argue that it never really was one in the first place).

Edited by Urbandale ()

#599
Poronto
Post rating: ~
just because trans national capitalist classes arent real whats the harm in thinking they are. c.f. God
#600
Occupied Aztlan
Post rating: +
the harm in thinking that they exist is that leftists are recreating the conspiracy worldview under the guise of structural thinking. suddenly davos and the like change from being a forum where various competing interests stare each other down to a place where one argues these competing interests dont exist at all, or are at least minimized.

note: this isnt me coming down against deep-state analysis. i think it can be quite useful in examining how states actually operate, but rather im arguing against those who claim that top capitalists suddenly dont care about the states they exist in because they all 'have more in common with each other' than the collective interests of the states they reside in. im also not saying that capitalists never diverge from the policy decisions of their respective countries, this happens all the time (nuclear power companies in the us are a good example of this).