Autonomous Integrated Sustainable Infrastructure Theory



I believe it can be generally agreed upon, that for a civilization to exist the following needs to be met: Food, Water, Waste Management, Shelter, Power, Transport.

For a civilization to continue to exist it needs:
State forces: Police, Corps(Defense, Medical, Civilian), etc., Consistent emphasis on education, Tolerance to change and diversity, Resilient and flexible resource management systems

All of these things except one are things that can be effectively decentralized while simultaneously remaining centralized at the state’s discretion. All of these things, not including State Forces, can be replicated on as little as 1 acre of property for a family of five and even more if the proper systems are in place.

I want to discuss all the needs that have to be met in this thread. I'm primarily going to describe how to meet the physical needs in this post. I honestly don’t know how the government is going to change so dramatically. I believe that it is certainly capable of doing so. I know that education helps for both the young and the old. I know a lot about multifunctional sustainable resource generation systems and methods that don’t require a lot of human labor. Many are quite old and simple actually. I know how to physically, and materially approach this problem. I do not know how to politically, or clerically approach this problem. I have no experience organizing people or with politics period.

From what I have observed so far, an integrated sustainable infrastructure, that produces food, power, and water is entirely possible to build and sustain, even in undeveloped countries. While it would likely require a massive public works project, it is ultimately something that generates far more capital than it initially demands. This is again not including certain State Forces, which can get expensive depending on how they’re managed as well.

I’m going to approach this subject with what I know about sustainable resource production models and a lot of it is technical stuff. The purpose of it is to point out that sustainable resource production models are not only within the grasp of state entities, but individuals themselves.

Things I want to stress:
This supports and compliments metropolitan infrastructure. Cities are good things.
Sustainable resource collection and generation methods do not have to contradict conventional infrastructure.
Sustainable infrastructure is multifunctional, and supplemental to other conventional forms of infrastructure and encourages and allows for fluid transition.
States that own large amounts of unused land, even barren land, are more easily capable of transitioning into sustainable models than others.
Sustainable infrastructure encourages and demands diversity and resilience and is also benefited by interconnection as well.

Agriculture: Where It All Begins

I discussed sustainable agriculture models extensively in a previous thread of mine. Regenerative agriculture can really be summed up by soil health, and soil health can be improved using many various techniques. One technique that is extremely important is earthworks. One of the first things done to land to make it sustainable is shaping the earth in the way so it will capture the rain and also funnel it into ponds and creeks. Burying plant matter, such as wood also restores soil health and encourages mycorrhizal growth. Using polycultures in your crop systems rather than monoculture crops is also essential in these systems. You can even grow grain crops among polycultures using certain grazing techniques. If anyone wants me to clarify any of these dynamics, I will describe the methods and techniques to you to the best of my ability and try to link videos and sources when I can. It’s just such an extensive amount of knowledge that I can get off track.

I hope you get the point though. Conscious human intervention can restore the environment at a massively accelerated rate. Barring that we can use those very same techniques to grow our own food and even produce capital with relatively little human labor inputs.

Water: Transpiration and Precipitation
I mentioned earthworks before. Earthworks are an essential element to restoring water to an area. Naturally, earthworks are far better when various types of flora are planted on them because it helps them to absorb and hold even more water.

Hugelkulture is a type of an earthwork with wood under the soil, if you put mounds of stones or bricks under that wood you get an aquifer, and you can create little paths of gravel out of the side of the whole earthwork/aquifer that gradually feed water into a creek or a pond. They also help prevent lots of flooding, if that’s ever an issue.


A land’s capacity to keep soil fertile, and maintain necessary moisture levels is highly dependent on it’s ability to retain water. The more flora that exists on a piece of land, the more water will be retained. Not only that though, flora increases precipitation. Trees are the paths on which rain clouds walk. Plants and trees don’t just bring rain though, they directly cause precipitation through transpiration.

Plants transpire when it gets hot. They moisturize the air by unleashing vapor through their leaves. This is actually known to influence air currents and wind, and moisture levels. A form of precipitation caused much more often by this process is morning fog. It is a result from the air cooling over night and not being able to hold vapor. The more plants and trees there are, the more fog you get.

This brings me to the concepts of air wells and dew ponds.

Dew ponds are shallow, often conical indentations in the earth designed to collect morning fog into a small, often temporary pond for livestock and other purposes.



They are constructed in different ways. Various methods of insulation and heat trapping using stones, straw, and clay are used to divert heat from the surface of the pond so more water moisture will condense.


Air wells can be as simple as stacks of stone, or complex stone towers with specialized polyethylane shapes with maximized surface areas. Air wells are designed to collect water from the atmosphere.



Convection towers are a more recent invention designed by Melvin L. Prueitt when it comes to collecting water.



11. Cooled air condenses as it moves down.
12. Moisture collected from air by falling water other kind of surface
13. Water is lightly sprayed into the air to heavily cool and moisturize it, causing to to move down and creating a current.

The turbines are meant to generate power from the air current too. It’s a multifunctional deal. I haven’t seen an example of these combined with air wells yet but I’m sure they’re out there.

Waste: The Cycle of Crap

Human manure can be used in anaerobic biodigesters to produce gas and heat that can be used for power generation, hot water, or even cooking. Jean Pain pioneered this method of composting and provided power and heating to his homestead. Can you imagine how much fossil fuel otherwise goes into heating and hot water?



A apart from that, water can be repeatedly filtered and aerated until it’s clean enough to send through greywater systems.

One passive method of water aeration is called a trompe.




As long as there’s water running from a different elevation this system will continuously collect isothermically compressed air in the upper part of the reservoir. That pressurized air can be used to power machinery, and cool rooms to the point of refrigeration depending on how big the trompe is. Trompes constant aeration of the water naturally filters all the waste out of it, turning it into silt the falls to the bottom. Trompes would be ideal for blackwater systems that deal with the water after most of the solids have been filtered out and salvaged for compost.

Trompes don’t just need to be used in waste treatment systems, they should be used for all water treatment systems and as methods of generating hydropneumatic power on a highly variable scale.

Power: From The Atmosphere

I hope I have adequately pointed out that trompes have potential for generating power. They are very passive systems, simply needing a flow of water to work and they are far more feasible and multifunctional than hydroelectric alternatives. Wind turbines and solar panels are good things but the power they provide on an individual scale isn’t at all reliable. Biogas systems are reliable on an individual scale, and so are other forms of fuel like wood gas, which isn’t as efficient on a small scale but still convenient for emergencies. Ideally, if you’re generating power for wood gasification, it’s temporary and you’re only generating electricity for elements that absolutely need a source of electricity, like lights, and various electronics such as computers.



That brings me to another point. For infrastructure to be autonomous, it’s sources of energy must be efficient as possible. Using electricity to power everything is not at all efficient, especially with the massive amounts of it lost in energy transfer. Isothermically compressed air approaches 100% efficiency ratings in storage and transfer however.

Biogas, Wood gas, and Isothermically compressed air are all things that could in theory be collected from 1 acre of land, perhaps even less and could easily be sufficient enough to power more than a single homestead. Solar panels are still a good idea however! Ideally, you would put transparent solar all over your greenhouses, if you could afford them. They function more as supplementary power. It would be even better though if some state entity came along and constructed all of this and left the farmer to just grow food and stuff!

Shelter: Houses of Mud, Grass, and Wood

There are many different ways to build houses. Cob is an option, so are earthbags, and oehler structures are essentially holes in the ground, usually next to a hill or terrace. They are typically easy to renovate.


Above is a two-story school made out of cob and bamboo in Pakistan.



All three of these techniques are interchangeable really. You can dig an oehler pit and then line the walls with earthbags and then seal it with cob. Keep in mind these types of dwellings are far more resistant to the elements than conventionally built ones, primarily because they are built out of dense natural materials. That means they retain and resist heat far better than other structures. The best part about houses like these is that they are made out of malleable, common materials. Cob is as common as grass and mud, and earthbags are as common as burlap sacks. Using sturdy types of wood, or even sturdy types of grass like bamboo are cheap and long lasting and easily replaceable.

I’m going to describe a scenario: After earning money and a small pension from doing several public works projects with the government, a man of modest means, buys a piece of land he helped work on at a reduced rate with special conditions. It’s fertile land with earthworks and ponds and trees in a state of revitalization. Say it’s 5 acres for 5k within 40 miles of a major metropolitan area. He wouldn't have to start paying a cent of that money until 5 years passes and the government assesses his resource consumption. If it is determined that his household consumes more resources (power, water, food) than produced, he has to start paying for the land, if it is determined otherwise, he stays there for free and the state checks back every decade after.

Imagine that the state planted a bunch of fruit trees on a part of his property just as a passive method of food production, in a “hopefully people harvest and utilize this” sort of way. He’s constantly harvesting fruit which sells too cheap at the market to make him anything he would want to take home. However he does turn one of his greenhouses into a quail pen and starts raising quail. He just tosses rotten fruit in there and they eat it up and all the insects that come from it. He uses macerated fruit to raise worms in a worm compost system and he also uses those worms to feed his quail. He then begins to sell his quail for profit and is producing much more capital than before.

The idea, is that this person exists in circumstances in which he doesn't need to make an effort to produce capital as long as he's not constantly doing wasteful things. He is constantly producing capital just by living on his homestead and occasionally maintaining it. His piss and shit flow into an interconnected waste treatment system where it is converted into power and fertilizer. He is literally pissing and shitting capital in a system like this. He produces capital as a hobby, or as means to obtain certain luxuries. He will live like this for most of his life and produce a net gain for his state. Apart from the healthiness, and wholesomeness a life in an area where lots of space and food is, it's ultimately a net resource gain for the state as well.

What I’m Trying To Say

I hope I’ve given enough information to drive a certain point home. Sustainable infrastructure is not only within reach of any cohesive state, but also in within reach of any individual who could afford to own about an acre of land. It’s highly scalable. It would be really nice and cool if the state caught on to this idea and helped people with it, and set up systems to implement and aid economies that result from distributing land this way.

China already did it in a way with the Household-Responsibility System. By allowing individuals who lived in rural areas of China control over their own relatively small plots of land, they could meet government quotas that were considered extensive even. They were initially extensive quotas because the H-R system was first implemented as a secret social experiment that wasn’t exactly uniformly approved of by the state. However the state realized how valuable and productive it was and implemented it on a larger scale beginning in the early 80’s. It’s actually pretty breathtaking how China revolutionized and continues to revolutionize it’s agricultural systems.

I would like to discuss all aspects of sustainable infrastructure, the physical, the political, and the socioeconomic. All I really understand at this point are most of the physical implications and methods for sustainable infrastructure. I know a little bit about the economic benefits but I know enough to know that they are inevitable.

Remember that these theories that haven’t been implemented, tested and measured at nearly as an extensive scale as conventional ones, but even with current data they have been proven to be more efficient than them in principle on very small scales though.

I know I exist in a stagnant political system filled with stupid, stubborn, old mean men who need to crawl in a hole and die. It's an old story. I don't care. Even if the solutions and theories and proposals I hear are completely bathed in fantasy it's so much better than hearing the same old shit over and over again.

Please discuss the implications and possibilities of this subject.
What forms of land distribution exist in other countries?
What knowledge can we take away from places like Bolivia and Cuba who have worked on sustainable systems for the past two decades?
How can various forms of long term environmental damage, such as coastal erosion be reversed this way?
Do you live in a self-sustaining household or community? If you're a farmer who uses low-energy techniques, what could the government do to help you out?
Decentralized education has been repeatedly demonstrated throughout history, can education be interconnected and autonomous as well?
Metropolitan areas offer a lot of unique microclimates, how can sustainable infrastructure principles be implemented in cities? How much water would a skyscraper-sized Air Well Convection Tower produce?

Discussion of Autonomous Integrated Sustainable Infrastructure Theory on tHE r H i z z o n E:

#1
grundlefloor
#2
awwwwww yeah
#3
Feel free to ask questions, propose ideas, openly brainstorm, whatever. I made this thread so I can learn too.
#4
The Cycle of Crap has also been used to describe my posting
#5
same
#6

Yup,Same posted:

The Cycle of Crap has also been used to describe my posting

#7
shit thread
#8
Agreed. Shit is good. It is unused capital.
#9
judging by how fast the bamboo grows in my yard, we could create infinite energy just by covering the earth with it and burning it for fuel
#10
Bamboo is a real cool plant that has countless uses. It's really easy to cut down and is lightweight. If you use dried bamboo stacks in hugelkulture, the long trunks actually function as a semi-aquifer as they break down because they hold so much empty space.

#11
doesn't bamboo need a bunch of chemicalz and an entire year to cure?
#12
No. Just soak it in water for 90 days and then dry it out in the sun.
#13
or you can just air dry it or fire dry it or whatever. people have been using bamboo for thousands of years they know how to do tons of shit with it lol it's like hemp.
#14

tsinava posted:

hegelkulture


#15
dihydrogen monoxide is a chemical comrade
#16

gyrofry posted:

dihydrogen monoxide is a chemical comrade

we should also end women's suffrage. those poor suffering women

#17
dihydrogen monoxide is a byproduct of growing fungus that plants breathe and also keeps the atmosphere warm. growing mushrooms in your greenhouse is a good idea, especially in cold climates.
#18

tsinava posted:

I do not know how to politically, or clerically approach this problem

we'll do it with communism my frend

#19

tsinava posted:

Bamboo is a real cool plant that has countless uses. It's really easy to cut down and is lightweight. If you use dried bamboo stacks in hugelkulture, the long trunks actually function as a semi-aquifer as they break down because they hold so much empty space.



right now im using Bamboo to wedge the button that turns my shower on in so that boiling hot water doesnt constantly shoot out around the valve at full blast 24 hours a day using up all my water, overflowing the tub, and costing me a shitload of money. It really does have countless uses

#20
cool thread but sustainable living is a question of politics, not science. I don't really see how living in bamboo houses is an important question compared to global communism creating liveable, aesthetically-unpleasing housing for the billions of people who live in slums. Under capitalism, the question of sustainable living for 7 billion people is one of solving the contradictions of the capitalist mode of production while under communism such a problem would already be solved (based on the massive surpluses of energy, food, water, and capital we already have that is wasted or hoarded). I do appreciate that Cuba has made eco-stuff which attracts tourism dollars from hippies.
#21
though I do agree with Richard Levins that capitalism is unable to investigate many ecological questions because the profit motive warps science and this is a problem socialists are capable of fixing under capitalism (or at least creating our own spaces for dialectical science). I would just like to see the overall problems of capitalism addressed rather than ignored, as if all societies are the same and nature is given and not the result of a dialectical relation with humanity.
#22
can you say more about how socialists are able to fix science under capitalism
#23

gyrofry posted:

can you say more about how socialists are able to fix science under capitalism



Depends what you mean by science. Marxists have a long history of going into unimportant or ignored fields (Geography, Literary Theory, Pedagogy) or taking over stagnant fields (Philosophy, History) and making everyone dance to their tune. Also fields like genetics, physics and biology always have periods when Marxists infiltrate or even briefly take over before they are beaten back by the bourgeois.

Science and academia will always be a site in which pure bourgeois ideology cannot completely reign because it's not really true and limits the horizon of what can be discovered, even for the sole purposes of bourgeois analysis of history or inventing new production technologies. As long as Trotskyism allows bourgeois academics to be Marxists while avoiding politics they will be a presence.

Also, schools and student debt may have been taken over by the free market but old grumpy Marxists with tenure and graduate students parroting whatever their adviser tells them will be forever. Not sure if you were looking for a more theoretical discussion.

#24
i was workign on this post for a thread of its own but i'll post it here instead

The guerrilla's garden: low-input, low-maintenance distributed food production in the temperate zone

let's just say that us and several hundred or thousand-odd like minded folks needed to go backpacking for a long period of time, and going to the grocery store would be against the rules. we could have friends bring us some food and supplies. but our friends might not be reliable or they might get lost. we'll probably be doing a lot of hunting out in the woods so our pals can bring us ammunition and the like, but it would be tough to feed all of our camping friends and still be able to go hunting every day. how are we gonna eat?

with some resources and four or five years of prior preparation we could set up hundreds of distributed self-propagating garden plots scattered throughout the area we plan to be conducting people's w-backpacking. there is a lot of overlap between tsinava's permaculture concepts and our goals. small clearings could be opened in wooded areas, berms and hugelkultur beds created, and the land prepared for plantings in ways that maximize soil fertility-building and moisture retention. sheet mulching and other forms of nutrient banking would be extremely helpful in setting up long-term fertility in our gardens. companion planting and forest gardening (layering edible understory plants with tree crops to maximize crop yield per unit area) will be key to good food production.

some considerations about what we'd want in these gardens:

low-maintenance: you'll be too busy backpacking and hunting to devote time and labor to tending crops. the plants in these gardens must be hardy and able to thrive with a minimum of care. favor plants that spread rapidly and bear prolifically. fruit trees like apples, pears, and cherries are too finicky and disease-prone for our needs.

long-lived: these crop plants should be perennials if at all possible, any annuals must be able to self-seed prolifically to ensure adequate supply from year to year. you'll be camping for a long time, probably.

nutritious: these crops, when eaten together, must supply a full complement of protein and enough calories to fuel rigorous athletic activity. favor nutritional value over flavor. backpacking is tough work and your pals will be hungry. you can't have tasty food every day and you've got to to take what you can get in order to keep on backpacking.

reliable year-round: select crops that bear for an extended period, have edible roots that will not be damaged by frosts, or whose edible products can be easily stored for extended periods.

concealable: you don't want nosy neighbors and the cops to find your gardens. they should blend into the landscape and be able to grow well in remote areas. no neat rows of vegetables and no carefully-pruned orchards, here.


so, what gets planted? a short herbal for the hungry guerrilla:

1.nut crops: low-maintenance, easy to store, and prolific. nuts will be the cornerstone of our diet. just wait till the nuts are ready and gather them from the ground. large mast crops will also attract game, which can supplement our diet with valuable protein.

oaks: in precolombian north america, the acorn was one of the staple sources of quality carbohydrates. one pound of processed acorn nutmeat contains 1600 calories and 28 grams of protein. consumption has been largely abandoned because acorns contain large amounts of tannins that give them an extremely bitter taste. with proper processing, however, they can be rendered very delicious. simply gather acorns and place them in a basket or sack and soak them in a stream for several days. the running water leaches out the tannins and the nuts can then be shelled and eaten. acorns also can be toasted (to kill bacteria and nut-eating grubs) and stored in pits or elevated granaries for years at a time as long as they are protected from pests. another advantage is that the oak is the climax-stage hardwood in the majority of north american forests. high-quality nutrition literally falls from the sky each autumn in these areas.

chestnuts: the chestnut was another staple of eastern native americans. although the native chestnut population was largely destroyed by an invasive fungal blight in the mid 20th-century, many hybrid blight-resistant varieties are now available. while the chestnut is less calorie-dense than the acorn (only 592 calories and 9 grams of protein per pound ) it is very delicious and requires almost no processing. like the acorn, chestnuts can be toasted and stored for years. dwarf varieties of chestnuts, the chinquapins, have a large, spreading, bushlike habit and can tolerate shade.

other calorie-rich nut crops like walnuts, hazelnuts, filberts, and butternuts should also be intermixed for variety and nutritional variation.


2:tree beans: unlike the beans we're used to in our sedentary dinners, trees in the legume family live for many decades, while still producing nutritious edible seeds. like all beans, these seeds are valuable sources of protein and vitamins that can be dried and stored for long periods. they also improve soil fertility in our gardens by fixing nitrogen.

honey locusts: these trees last many years and are known for their distinctive spines, which are so hard they were actually used as nails in times past. a mature honey locust tree produces thousands of edible seedpods every spring and into the summer. young pods can be cooked and eaten like green beans, larger, still-immature pods contain a deliciously sweet, syrupy pulp between each developing seed (this pulp gives the honey locust its name), and mature dry seeds can be collected and cooked like any bean.

siberian pea: originally introduced to the US by russian settlers who used it for food, the siberian pea is a sadly neglected crop. it produces thousands of small pea pods each spring, and is a prolific grower (young plants grow as much as three feet a year). they are decried as invasive pests by gardeners and farmers. they spread quickly, grow fast, and are resistant to heat, cold, drought, and floods. they are short at maturity (6-15 ft), allowing for easy harvesting, and can tolerate shade.


3: tubers n' roots:another staple of our semi-nomadic agriculture. they stay hidden underground and can survive winter frosts, only to be dug up when needed.

jerusalem artichoke or sunchoke: along with the acorn and the hog peanut, the jerusalem artichoke is one of the kings of our foodscape. they are unstoppable once established and rapidly spread to fill any available space as many a hapless housebound gardener can attest. their roots overwinter well. surprisingly, fresh jerusalem artichoke does not contain many calories in the form of carbohydrates, as the plant stores its energy in the form of inulin, and indigestible polymer of fructose. however, with storage, this inulin breaks down into calorie-dense fructose. the jerusalem artichoke is also extremely high in protein for a tuber, containing 10% protein by weight as well as large amounts of potassium and iron.

groundnut: the american groundnut is a climbing vine that produces numerous edible tubers that taste a lot like a nutty potato. its climbing habit makes it a great choice for scrubby areas or at the edges of larger plantings. its tubers have 16% protein by weight and are a good source of calcium and iron. it also fixes nitrogen.

hog peanut: the hog peanut, a close relative to the more famous regular-type peanut is another native american staple who fell from favor with the advent of cracker monoculture. the hog peanut is an extremely shade-tolerant nitrogen fixer that spreads rapidly along the forest floor. it produces large numbers of seedpods just at the level of the soil surface. the pods each contain several beans that are nutty in flavor and store well. the hog peanut is an excellent companion plant with the jerusalem artichoke as they both thrive with neglect and their invasive habit can quickly turn a small scattered planting into a huge one.

4:fruits and vegetables: apples and other commonly-farmed tree fruits are too delicate for our needs, but that doesn't mean we can't eat tougher fruit. there are also many nutritious plants that thrive without human care that are very edible when properly prepared.

pawpaw the pawpaw is a tasty native fruit that is related to the mango. they have a delicious, custard-like flesh that is studded with small shiny seeds. it thrives along streambeds and produces for most of the summer.

persimmon the persimmon gets a bad rap: most people complain that its fruit is disgustingly, puckeringly bitter. the trick is to wait to harvest them until the first frost has nipped the fruit: the freezing temperatures make the bitterness disappear and the fruit becomes deliciously sweet. persimmons can be gathered and dried for storage.

white mulberry: the white mulberry yields prolific blackberry-like fruits every year, and the young leaves can be picked and steamed or boiled and eaten as a potherb.

egyptian walking onion: unlike onions that have been selected for uniform shape and ease of monoculture production, the egyptian walking onion is well-suited for our needs. every year, the walking onion produces a seedhead that tips over and plants itself nearby. one small planting of walking onions can quickly grow to a very large one, and will supply us with onions for many years without the need for replanting.

asparagus:asparagus is a perennial that thrives without much attention. will add some nice variety to our diet in the spring

turkish rocket a perennial member of the same family as cabbage and broccoli, turkish rocket has edible leaves, stems, and produces flower heads that can be eaten like broccoli.

misc. potherbs: perennial weeds like common plantain, sorrel, and skirret can be steamed or boiled like kale and are a valuable source of vitamins and minerals. stinging nettle is also a very delicious potherb (if annoying to harvest). when cooked , it loses its sting and tastes a lot like spinach. it also has the double benefit of deterring nosy neighbors if planted thickly around our gardens.


so there you have it. these gardens would be easy and cheap to plant, just putting a few seedlings in the ground, scattering seed, or plating saplings in sleeves to deter browsing deer. if preparations began well in advance of our adventure, these mature plantings could feed us and our friends for a really long time!

Edited by dank_xiaopeng ()

#25

dank_xiaopeng posted:

i was workign on this post for a thread of its own but i'll post it here instead

The guerrilla's garden: low-input, low-maintenance distributed food production in the temperate zone



This is a good post. Read this post.

#26
also grow weed, for morale.
#27
I also want to say that I think communism is good and I believe these types of systems heavily implicate that form of government, and also facilitate it's inception.
#28
The sciences and descriptions of the physical models behind regenerative agriculture, and resilient, integrated infrastructure are pretty easy to understand and the terminology is not hard to learn in my opinion. Any one can learn it. I can learn it.

Everyone understands things like fire, air, gravity, rain, heat, water. It uses grade school science.

The reason why it's good, is that you can describe these models to money-obsessed mentally ill people and describe how they can continuously make money with initial investment in a farm that has very low long term costs. Once it all clicks in their head, their eyes literally turn into dollar signs irl. I have seen it. That's where they stop though. They don't understand the larger implications.
#29

dank_xiaopeng posted:

i was workign on this post for a thread of its own but i'll post it here instead

The guerrilla's garden: low-input, low-maintenance distributed food production in the temperate zone



THANKS, FREINd

#30

dank_xiaopeng posted:

weed

#31
[account deactivated]
#32
phillipine prostitutes are neither delicious nor nutritious, no matter what bhpn says
#33
[account deactivated]
#34
for a reliable and sustainable source of fuel, print out my endless terrible posts and set them on fire
#35
[account deactivated]
#36

Superabound posted:

THANKS, FREINd




(thanks tpaine for supplying the town names on the map)

#37

dank_xiaopeng posted:

The guerrilla's garden: low-input, low-maintenance distributed food production in the temperate zone



thanks, friend. when the revolution comes and strong proletarian hands tear the machines down then this will be my suicide love-letter to industrial-agricultural collapse, as i take my leave and let you all dig up goobletubers or whatever. where the hell are the apples and potatoes and carrots and broccoli? where is the wheat? you're gonna tell me we need to abandon apples and eat more mulberries and "turkish rocket"? auugh. have you even tasted mulberries? i mean really and about this acorn business i mean look maybe a handful of migratory northerners survived a bad year or two on acorn flour that they painstakingly rinsed and mashed while dying of hunger and sucking dry marrow from dog bones but the continent's actual native staple in precolumbian times was corn and it supported massive urban populations, kind of like now. peanuts and beans and peppers were domesticated and harvested years and years before european contact. why do you wanna have low input agriculture? does survivalism just take away the edge of fear from our teetering precarious industrial system? imo if you wanna be a communist then talk about nationalizing american agriculture and think about corn prices aaauuua my god. anyway whew forget about that though, hey how've you been ?

#38

roseweird posted:

corn


actually according to http://actraiser.wikia.com/wiki/Wheat

Wheat is a crop discovered by the people of Bloodpool, which sustains more people than corn. The Master should take a sample of the crop to each new area, and use it on the first corn field created. Once one field has been converted, all subsequent fields will also be wheat. Wheat will not reinvigorate a field that has been wilted by a Red Demon, only Rain will do that.

#39
i guess thats why bloodpeople from bloodpool won the colubmain exchange
#40

roseweird posted:

dank_xiaopeng posted:

The guerrilla's garden: low-input, low-maintenance distributed food production in the temperate zone

thanks, friend. when the revolution comes and strong proletarian hands tear the machines down then this will be my suicide love-letter to industrial-agricultural collapse, as i take my leave and let you all dig up goobletubers or whatever. where the hell are the apples and potatoes and carrots and broccoli? where is the wheat? you're gonna tell me we need to abandon apples and eat more mulberries and "turkish rocket"? auugh. have you even tasted mulberries? i mean really and about this acorn business i mean look maybe a handful of migratory northerners survived a bad year or two on acorn flour that they painstakingly rinsed and mashed while dying of hunger and sucking dry marrow from dog bones but the continent's actual native staple in precolumbian times was corn and it supported massive urban populations, kind of like now. peanuts and beans and peppers were domesticated and harvested years and years before european contact. why do you wanna have low input agriculture? does survivalism just take away the edge of fear from our teetering precarious industrial system? imo if you wanna be a communist then talk about nationalizing american agriculture and think about corn prices aaauuua my god. anyway whew forget about that though, hey how've you been ?



no dummy i'm not saying that that particular agricultural scheme should or could in any way replace the agriculture that feeds the majority of us. the food production system i laid out would probably be pretty awful for someone used to eating tasty industrial agricultural treats. my point was that it would be completely possible for a group to set up a very low-input and low-labor food production scheme if they were completely cut off from the broader economy and were forced to lead a transient and clandestine existence.

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