you can read most of it here, google only hides a couple pages
Matt Taibi is good for waking weak liberals up I guess, but I find that kind of analysis boring and often dangerous when it blames Goldman Sachs rather than the system (isn't Lloyd Blankenfein basically the Rothschild of today?).
discipline posted:babyhueypnewton posted:How does the fixed nature of oil geographically relate to the global flows of capital?
http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/5296/capitalism-and-class-in-the-gulf-arab-states
I've heard you mention a few times how Zionist techniques of population control are the model for future systems of discipline. I think I can see the wheels turning in your brain, since the disposable, vulnerable slave labor in the gulf states is a very extreme form of the western "precariat" (a shitty word but it does approach some truth no one has really hit yet) that you've been talking about for a while. I'm assuming you see this as the model for all future labor in a technological system in which capital is highly mobile and labor remains fixed and are thinking of the strategies socialism can take in this situation. I would be interested if I'm on the right track. Cool book too, I'll probably read it when I quit my job in a blaze of glory.
babyhueypnewton posted:Obviously the trivial utopian marxist answer is a spontaneous global revolution but let's be reasonable men.
babyhueypnewton posted:men.
babyhueypnewton posted:I just can't articulate
Edited by eccentricdeathmongrel ()
eccentricdeathmongrel posted:babyhueypnewton posted:Obviously the trivial utopian marxist answer is a spontaneous global revolution but let's be reasonable men.
babyhueypnewton posted:men.
babyhueypnewton posted:I just can't articulate
Don't you read books? It's a specific philosophy diction, retard.
discipline posted:And best part is, they trade this oil at record high prices (going long, betting that the price will never go down) on the assumption that the world isn’t going to stop using oil anytime soon. So, if you want a good reason to kill an electric car and hippy-green policies such as lowering our consumption on oil… well, there’s another market that’s gonna collapse!
why would very high oil prices discourage research into alternative energies.
discipline posted:we can make another thread about labor mobility if you want babyhuey. this is about commodities trading
nah I mostly post to get stuff out of my head. I can't see much in the OP to talk about though, but i hate Matt Taibi and I don't really care for the Exiled (sorry Impper)
1. Americans do not use their own oil. Oil drilled domestically is shipped abroad.
2. Americans mainly use imported oil from South America, not the Middle East.
3. There is no shortage of oil on the market.
ummmm maybe you shouldn't conflate crude oil and refined oil. the USA only exports like 17 million barrels of crude a year. not that much i must say.
The US imports and exports a shit ton of oil because refining is a really tough task, and only the proud strong American is up to such a task. refineries cost billions of dollars. building the infrastructure to refine would require lots of work and i think most countries appreciate all the work america is doing for refining the crude for them.
yeah there is no shortage of oil, if there was we wouldn't be able to drive cars! but there is a shortage of future supplies. Reserves in NA are dwindling, pretty much all conventional oil deposits in US/Canada have been exploited heavily. This is reality and not some wizandry made up by goldman sachs. i'm sure they have influence in the price but probably not nearly as much as you'd like to believe.
discipline posted:hey posted:
yeah there is no shortage of oil, if there was we wouldn't be able to drive cars! but there is a shortage of future supplies. Reserves in NA are dwindling, pretty much all conventional oil deposits in US/Canada have been exploited heavily. This is reality and not some wizandry made up by goldman sachs. i'm sure they have influence in the price but probably not nearly as much as you'd like to believe.
how does a future shortage justify a 470% increase and somehow have nothing to do with the index market being deregulated at the same time prices started to rise
But surely it wasn’t just a future shortage that prompted that price……demand would have skyrocketed across Asia in that decade and you’ve got distribution bottlenecks and ports, refineries, pipelines, all of those are going to add to the price.
babyhueypnewton posted:discipline posted:we can make another thread about labor mobility if you want babyhuey. this is about commodities trading
nah I mostly post to get stuff out of my head. I can't see much in the OP to talk about though, but i hate Matt Taibi and I don't really care for the Exiled (sorry Impper)
same, epic same
discipline posted:hey posted:yeah there is no shortage of oil, if there was we wouldn't be able to drive cars! but there is a shortage of future supplies. Reserves in NA are dwindling, pretty much all conventional oil deposits in US/Canada have been exploited heavily. This is reality and not some wizandry made up by goldman sachs. i'm sure they have influence in the price but probably not nearly as much as you'd like to believe.
how does a future shortage justify a 470% increase and somehow have nothing to do with the index market being deregulated at the same time prices started to rise
War on Iraq, Hurricane Katrina, Chavez being elected, discussions of C02 taxes all had some pretty major impact on prices. But maybe these events don't have nearly as much as an impact as I think they do. And that the speculators used things like katrina and war on Iraq to adjust the prices, that way no one would think twice about the price of oil because now they have the perfect excuses.
What makes this all hard to believe though, is that all the unconventional oil extraction methods like the oil sands and tight oil plays require huge amounts of capital and are barely economic. they are highly dependent on the high oil prices of today. And I would imagine that prices that have been artificially inflated by speculators like you say they are, would also make the prices very vulnerable, because instead of being driven by the Real Markets of supply/demand, they are driven by a group of analysts at goldman. As a result, I don't think these huge multi-nationals would put so much money into things like oil sands and risk losing billions of dollars because of an accounting mistake or if we go back to historical regulations.
discipline posted:hey posted:yeah there is no shortage of oil, if there was we wouldn't be able to drive cars! but there is a shortage of future supplies. Reserves in NA are dwindling, pretty much all conventional oil deposits in US/Canada have been exploited heavily. This is reality and not some wizandry made up by goldman sachs. i'm sure they have influence in the price but probably not nearly as much as you'd like to believe.
how does a future shortage justify a 470% increase and somehow have nothing to do with the index market being deregulated at the same time prices started to rise
I'm inherently suspicious of any theory that blames conscious collusion amongst a hundred different actors or that one actor e.g. goldman is somehow pulling the entire market. Goldman is certainly influential and has a lot of weight to throw around, but there are thousands of firms out there that are all trying to get rich.
I mean, certainly speculation cycles are certainly an inherent part of capitalism, but I don't think that's the only thing at play. If we look at price of crude oil, at least by my inspection, we can fit an exponential curve to it with decent accuracy. That makes sense, as oil extraction is linearly expanding (f'(x) = kx) as we add more extraction points, our oil reserves are exponentially decreasing (at least until we reach some peak extraction). But either way, if there is an expanding demand, the relation will still be exponential.
Also, you need to remember that a decade ago industry and finance seriously believed that oil could be extracted at increasing rates forever and that they were buying the overblown estimates of oil reserves given out by countries.
getfiscal posted:you mean very high prices reduces demand while encouraging new supply? wow. someone tell the resource economists.
Is your trolling about how you don't understand price inelasticity of oil
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2011/01/pdf/text.pdf
